Son wants spend same $ on bar mitzva as everyone else

Chayalle

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 10:32 am

amother wrote:

Thanks for responding. You spoke about a typical bar mitzva but u didnt quote any prices. The money has to come from somewhere, I still have other expenses bh like braces etc...

However, I have a question on your last statement "I expect my kid to do the norm and I would do the same for my kid".
So are u saying if the norm is to make a 10 to 15 k bar mitzva, then u believe that I must do that even if I am not able to afford it.???(I know kollel ppl making expensive simchas and own houses etc...good for them but money has to come from somewhere)

This is a discussion about "keeping up with jones". How can I change the "norm" to be wat my reality is which is max $3000(by the way, this is not including his suit and hat and tefillin)???

Do u believe im supposed to do the "norm" which is above my means which means im giving in to peer pressure, regardless of my finances???

I live with mixed group of poorer and middle class families but u cant tell who is really rich/poor based on simchas unfortunately.

Am I a bad mom for not spending more on my sons bar mitzva??? I dont think so. I think im being rational and realistic with our budgget and im not giving into the pressure of "keeping up with jones". Yes, my kids have a right to "fit in", but the problem is that if everyone is raising the bar by following the norm, then kids from poorer families will always feel different unless their parents go into debt to "fit in". How far does this go? And, wat is this teaching our children for the future?? Will they go into debt also thinking that they are "bad" if they dont provide the norm???

The problem is that a $3000 seuda with music and nice food in a nice place with a new suit is A LOT IN MY EYES AND IS A VERY NICE SIMCHA IN MY OPINION. its not a necessity to have a party.

Im curious to hear about ur opinionabout this.

If you would live in a community where spending 10-15K was the norm (I don't mean those one or two wealthy people in the class - I mean standard) and you can't afford it then I have a question for you - what are you doing there?

But yes - I believe that if we join a certain community, then we are supposed to do the norm. Sort of like, when in Rome....

It's not about keeping up with the Jones's to me - it's about being part of a community and doing what is normal.

I'll give you an example. When we go to shul on Y"T, there are one or two families in shul who are the wealthy baalei batim. Their wives and children dress really, really well. You can pick them right out. I don't feel a need or a pressure to be like them.

Then there are the regular folk, who are all wearing their normal, standard Y"T clothes. That's what I aim for. I want my kids to feel normal when they walk into shul. They don't have to be the town nebachs. Just the normal!

I hear you about the simchas and it's really scary, I agree. I don't know how people do it and it's nuts that everyone raises the bar so much.

I still feel that it's very hard for kids if they are expected to be the example for everyone and feel like they don't fit in. I'm coming from a perspective where I've seen this backfire for some people - kids who didn't fit in, who then went further and boy do they not fit in anymore.

Probably what I would do is try to stretch whatever I could come up with to the max. I like thunderstorm's post, where she did alot herself in order to make a nice Simcha. I have aunts who cooked a great deal of their son's Bar Mitzva seuda, and their daughter's Shabbos Sheva Brachos, etc..to stretch their $$$.

amother

Olive

Fri, Mar 08 2019, 3:00 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Well, thanks for explaining ur view. I agree with a lot of what u wrote, but disagree with some. First, as a frum family, we have to live in a Jewish community and send to frum schools. So, while there may be some areas/communities that are super wealthy, a lot of the communities are a big mix but unfortunately the norm is still to spend like a wealthy person.

Yes, there may be some communities that may be more simple out of town but not everyone can pick up and move due to their jobs being in the city.....therefore, if I live in a community where the norm is 10-15k bar mitzvah, I think its ok to be different especially if everyone who can't afford it is only doing it because everyonelse is doing it....and that's where I disagree because while kids shouldn't stick out, at the same time, there must be a time to say we are different and have to spend differently, otherwise, they will grow up and think they need to buy everything everyonelse is buying (without thinking of a budget). And, this can cause couples to lose a home they couldn't afford or go into debt. This is not financially healthy .

Thanks for responding. By the way, we live in a community with a big mix of families.

amother

Blue

Sat, Mar 09 2019, 7:21 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for responding. U are comparingmy spending to the Jones"". Just because others may spend more than $3000, doesn't mean its "cheap" or wrong to do so. Everyone here says dont follow the Jones....so we are different from the others . For example, some own homes, we dont. But, we are not sending him to a school. With rich ppl. The ppl at the school is mixed ranges of finances, but some ppl choose to spend more of simchas simply because they can't "beat" the pressure. This is why some go into debt.
However, I'm not "deprving " my son at all by offering to make a $3000 bar mitzvah. If u think so, then u probably dont understand a cheaper lifestyle with a budget. I also don't resent him wanting to feel "normal" except that I don't see "normal" as
"I must spend like my friends on something that's not a necessity in life"

I think he should appreciate the sacrifice me n my dh are making.

I also think u misunderstood my point about the "donuts" .

For some reason OP, your poor spelling is just rubbing me the wrong way
You seem to have a really negative attitude and a chip on your shoulder about life in general & your upcoming Bar Mitzva specifically. As many people have already stated it is very inappropriate for your son and you to be discussing actual costs of his own bar mitzvah. He is only 13 years old!

amother

Saddlebrown

Sat, Mar 09 2019, 8:36 pm

Everything that Chayalle said.
I am in a similar situation to OP but have a very different perspective. At this age, a child needs to feel normal. He already expressed that he would rather nothing than something “cheap.” That shows that he has felt in the past that he has less. I’m not saying to make the most extravagant party, but if you want your child to be well adjusted, you need to be in line with the average of what is done in your community. It is not his fault that you chose to live in a place where people keep up with the Joneses even if they can’t afford it. It’s ok for you to be against it and to deprive yourself of various luxuries. You are an adult. You can’t do that to a child. While some children come out fine and learn about life this way, some (and I know some personally) have emotional issues or are off the derech because the became so resentful. Their parents are paying a lot of money now in therapy etc.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 12:01 pm

I have no clue why you mentioned the price - if his friends talk about a 10- 15k bar mitzvah he's sure he will be mortified with a simcha while it sounds like what you are doing will be fine. Talk about what it will look like, what you will have, and then see the reaction

I think to expect a 13 year old to not care about what his friends think is not realistic. To expect him to apperciate your sacrafices is about YOUR emotional needs. Parents take care of kids emotional needs - not the other way around.

You also shouldn't go over budget to make him happy - you need to figure out what is really important to him. Just ideas on the top of my head....
- Maybe he doesn't need a photographer but really wants a nice band.
-Go to a gemach and get really nice centerpieces and tablecloths so it looks "nice" to him.
-Don't use papergoods - you can get real dishes from a gemach and its cheaper even if its alot more work...
- Maybe he cares more about entertainment for his friends then having all of the extended family and friends - you can make a nice dessert table and invite them for the end.

Imamother is a great resource to make your 3k bar mitzvah a beautiful one and one that makes him happy.

Honestly if you want your kids to learn how to live within thier needs you need to be much more understanding and empathetic and show them practically that you are doing whatever you can to help them feel comftorable. That evan if you can't give them everything they want you want to make them feel as comftorable as possible and will do whatever you can to make that happen.

I grew up like this and today I am super frugal - but it's only because as a kid I felt like my parents understood that I wanted to fit in and really tried to make it work. They couldn't afford camp - so they helped me find a sunday job so that I could save for it. I couldn't have the brand name clothing I wanted - mom shleped to thrift shops in yahopitsville to find me the juicy sweatshirt and ugg boots I wanted. They didn't make me feel ungrateful for wanting to fit in. They didn't expect me to "apperciate thier sacrafices".

I've seen people parent with your attitude - that the kids should be grateful for a roof on his head and basic neccassities. It worked for some of the kids but most ended up way way OTD. Its not about the money its about empathy and attitude.