When someone commits a crime do they lose their job?

LovetoLive

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:46 pm

When a celebrity commits a crime do you think they should be pulled from whatever show or movie they were starring in, or do you think they should be allowed to continue filming until they get sentenced?

I suppose it also matters what they did wrong, so if their crime was financial, lets say, would it be different for you than if it were abuse or murder?

does it end up punishing the viewers of the show, who have come to love a character, when that character gets killed off or replaced because of the crime committed in their personal life?

I'm so torn on this.

if a regular person is accused of a crime is he fired from his job instantly before he gets sentenced? let's say a social worker helps a lot of poor families, and then is accused of tax evasion, does she lose her job instantly, and the families suffer because of losing the person they trust? does she keep helping as long as she can? if she has to pay a fine, and doesn't go to jail, does she keep on with her job like usual?

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:05 pm

Celebrities these days lose their jobs for a whole lot less than actual crimes. Tweeting the wrong thing this days will get someone written off a show pretty quickly. If the celebrity ends up getting convicted and going to jail, then sure, it makes sense. I don't like decisions being made hastily and without proper investigation. For example, JK Rowling caught a lot of flack for casting Johnny Depp in the Fantastic Beasts series when he had abuse allegations that were never proven, and never went to trial because Amber Heard dropped the charges. JKR stuck by her decision and did not drop Depp and was raked over the coals for it. Just last week, a huge spate of evidence was released showing that Amber Heard was the abuser and Johnny Depp was the victim. Will Heard be dropped from future Aquaman movies now? Who knows. But it's so important to investigate before jumping to hasty conclusions. No one seems to want to do the work anymore, decisions and accountability are expected to be instant.

leah233

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:08 pm

If committing a crime was automatic grounds for losing a job then what will all the unemployed former convicts do? Support themselves by committing even worse crimes?

The only reason a criminal should lose their job is if their crime was of a nature that causes them to either (1)be a danger (2)not trustworthy of competent of their job.

No one should lose a job because of an accusation without a LOT of evidence. Innocent until proven guilty .

Last edited by leah233 on Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

SixOfWands

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:19 pm

Celebrities sometimes lose jobs when involved in a scandal because what they are selling is image.

Lori Loughlin did Hallmark movies. Maybe they hired her because she's a great actress. But more likely they hired her because of all the warm fuzzies associated with her from Full House. Its Aunt Becky! Who doesn't love Aunt Becky! And when those fuzzies disappear because of a scandal, well, they're better off with someone who can generate them, and can pull in an audience.

Same for endorsement deals. You don't want people with a whiff of trouble.

Now, your average social worker accused of tax evasion or something. Nothing to do with work. And clients won't know. So they keep working.

Amarante

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 3:05 pm

Celebrities losing their jobs is a whole different category. Typically their employment contracts contain a specific clause providing they can be fired for anything that reflects poorly on them.

Whether the clause is actually invoked depends on the medium. In general television programming is more sensitive to actions that viewers might find offensive because it is a mass media and because it is advertiser sponsored.

Music is on the other end of the continuum because bad boys and women are part of the gestalt of rock and pop music.

Movies are somewhere in the middle. Kevin Spacey’s career is effectively dead in movies as well as Netflix. Streaming is a bit of an oddity since it isn’t advertiser sponsored but Spacey’s actions were beyond the pale. On the other hand, Woody Allen continues to have a viable movie career but that has a lot to do with his being able to obtain financing outside of the major studio system and because his films are relatively low budget and always profitable. It would be unlikely that anyone attached to a major action hero genre would be able to get hired since the audience is more broad based.

Private employment is a whole other matter especially since an arrest wouldn’t necessarily signal guilt. On the other hand, most of the non-celebrity parents indicted in the college admissions scandal have taken leaves of absences, resigned or otherwise been disappeared from their high profile positions.

Last edited by Amarante on Mon, Mar 18 2019, 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

Amarante

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 3:37 pm

Fox wrote:

It also depends on the kind of protekzia you have, both in the entertainment world and in the workaday world, too.

Bryan Singer, for example, has allegedly been able to continue working because of David Geffen's support (should note that Singer hasn't been convicted of a crime).

Bryan Singer has suffered career repercussions as he was fired from both Red Sonja and Bohemian Rhapsody.

You really should stay at courant on the gay mafia power propaganda elders of Boystown. Very Happy

33055

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 3:41 pm

leah233 wrote:

Having a record is a big problem that keeps convicts from working and contributes to recidivism. The laws are tightening up on what they can ask in interviews and on questionnaires regarding past arrests and convictions. In NYS there was a law passed last year that erased certain criminal records in recognition of the problem. I am not sure, but I think they had to be non- violent.

Convicts also have trouble getting housing. Kim Kardashian offered to pay a former convict 5 years rent. He couldn't find housing even with the guaranteed payment. I don't know too much of the story because I don't usually read when a headline mentions Kardashian.

The frum community is much kinder to those that have records than general society. Those with records are fully integrated back into society from what I can see.

Fox

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 4:28 pm

Squishy wrote:

Having a record is a big problem that keeps convicts from working and contributes to recidivism.

This is really the next important step in prison reform, and it's obviously a delicate balance. No employer wants to hire someone who is going to steal or engage in other illegal behavior. On the other hand, we have too many men -- especially black men -- who are desperately needed to stabilize their communities upon their release. Many are middle-aged now and have no desire to return to whatever led to their incarceration, but if we make it too hard for them, they'll have little choice.

animeme

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 5:47 pm

Fox wrote:

I'm curious about your opinion on the assertion that the lack of employers' abilities to check an individual's criminal record causes them to be more reluctant to hire anyone from a minority group with higher criminal records in general.

Fox

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:21 pm

Amarante wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know how a Frum woman living a quiet existence in the Midwest is so hooked into the gay underground network? LOL

I know, right!? It's totally ridiculous! I promise it's not my fault. It just . . . happens. In fact, it's just been . . . happening . . . since I was 16.

For example, I followed Chad Felix Greene on Twitter because I liked his articles in The Federalist. Next thing I know, I'm getting hit with follows, likes, retweets, little emojis, or DMs from every gay conservative I've heard of and a bunch that nobody has heard of. The Georgia Log Cabin Republicans keep accidentally unfollowing me and then apologizing.

One night I was up late and I got a DM from a guy who was having a panic attack and wanted me to daven for him. Um, okay. Sure, sweetie.

Honestly, I'm to the point on Twitter where some guy mentions that he's married to a woman (cuz I guess that's like, a thing), and I find myself thinking, "Huh! I would never have guessed he's straight!"

And we haven't even gotten into my personal correspondents, including the Vancouver widower of a boy I grew up with. Seriously, all I did was send condolences when my childhood neighbor was niftar, and the next thing I know, I'm receiving regular pictures and reports on their "doggies."

So despite my best efforts to hang out with other nice Jewish ladies on Imamother and squabble endlessly about politics, I must be sending out vibes through the ethernet cables. Either that, or the Georgia Log Cabin Republicans are promoting me: "DM Fox! She'll daven for you!"

The moral of this story is that next time we are arguing politics, you can probably shut me down completely by reminding me that my opinions are likely influenced by a bunch of gay men who don't really approve of same-s-x marriage but get married anyway in order to file jointly. Their idea of a conspiracy theory is that Obergefull v. Hodges was actually a plot by tax accountants.

On the flip side, in between pictures of all those dogs, I do occasionally get pointed toward some delicious gossip. Such as the wholly unsubstantiated theory that Geffen encouraged his sidekick Oprah to promote Leaving Neverland as a way to take the focus off Singer.

Amarante

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:24 pm

Fox wrote:

Ah well that explains it as there is no yenta like a gay yenta - of whatever political persuasion and however far removed they are in terms of six degrees of separation. LOL

And in horribly incorrect language which is probably no longer used, you are an internet Frum f*g h*g - so go know LOL

You are Grace to some gay libertarian Wills LOL

Last edited by Amarante on Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:26 pm; edited 2 times in total

Fox

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:25 pm

animeme wrote:

I think that's likely true, and it actually hurts people who don't have criminal records but just have spotty work histories.

Really, the only solution is a strong enough economy that employers are forced to take a few chances and people with criminal records are able to get good enough jobs that they're willing and able to stay on the right side of the law.

Fox

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:37 pm

Amarante wrote:

Ah well that explains it as there is no yenta like a gay yenta - of whatever political persuasion and however far removed they are in terms of six degrees of separation. LOL

And in horribly incorrect language which is probably no longer used, you are an internet Frum f*g h*g - so go know LOL

You are Grace to some gay libertarian Wills LOL

Oh, honey! I was Grace when Jimmy Carter was President!

In fact, when I'd have to herd my kids across the street to avoid running into some poor mother who had vainly hoped at some point in the past that I would marry her son, I would just say, "We're crossing the street because Mrs. Truman never gets nachas from Mrs. Adler's eineklach." They didn't have a clue what I was talking about, of course, but they accepted the answer.

As for "f*g h*g," I defer to Margaret Cho, who agrees that it's unfortunate but says she can't think of anything better. She does a great bit about f*g h*gs and the Underground Railroad: "Don't forget about Kyle. You know he like to linger!"

One of these days I'm going to have to come clean and do an AMA . . .

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:39 pm

A bit off topic, but re: Johnny Depp, that's not quite true. The evidence is actually on her side.
In any case, pre internet, years ago there were news reports of him trashing hotel rooms, etc. He is a badly behaved person who got away with it for years when he was still a profitable star. Sure, now he's hired a PR person to try and rehabilitate his image. But the facts are not on his side.
And yeah, JK Rowling loses respect from me for her response.