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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Abortion long time ago



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amother
Crimson


 

Post Sun, Mar 17 2019, 5:55 pm
I am an older women the country that I came from abortion was a norm
got married here my first pregnancy was difficult
got pregnant right away with a second one had a baby got pregnant again
and was advised by older people to have an abortion and I did all in all had 3 abortions
now that I am older understand more it makes me so sad of the advise that I had
I dont know how to come to terms with what I did. We bacame religious but sometimes I feel like I am such a fake how coudve I done that I was so young and stupid
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Sun, Mar 17 2019, 7:33 pm
amother wrote:
I am an older women the country that I came from abortion was a norm
got married here my first pregnancy was difficult
got pregnant right away with a second one had a baby got pregnant again
and was advised by older people to have an abortion and I did all in all had 3 abortions
now that I am older understand more it makes me so sad of the advise that I had
I dont know how to come to terms with what I did. We bacame religious but sometimes I feel like I am such a fake how coudve I done that I was so young and stupid


Many, many hugs. I know what it is like to do something irreversible that I absolutely regret when I was also young and stupid. If you can muster the courage, maybe discussing it with a Rav can be helpful.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Sun, Mar 17 2019, 7:40 pm
There’s your answer. You were young, naive and easily influenced by people who should have thought before advising you to seek a permanent solution to a temporary difficulty. They urged you to act rather than to consider how your actions would make you feel 20 years down the road. What you have to do now is accept that you made mistakes and try to come to terms with your regrets.

This is where faith helps. If you believe that whatever happens is meant to happen, then you may still be sad but don’t have to spend the rest of your life beating yourself up.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 17 2019, 9:21 pm
Contact your local hospital, and see if they offer grief counselling. It sounds like you've never been fully given permission to mourn your younger self, and the situation you were in at the time.

Grief counseling doesn't have to be about losing a relative or friend, it can be about losing a part of yourself. You need to process that before you can move on the next stage of healing, which is accepting yourself. Once you can accept yourself and forgive yourself, then you will be able to love yourself, and realize that Hashem loves you, too.

As a matter of fact, Hashem has loved you all along. Hug
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 17 2019, 9:32 pm
Was there a good reason at the time to do the abortions?
Even if you would never do them now, perhaps back then it was the right thing to do.

I think you need to forgive yourself, you will find it very freeing.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 4:14 pm
Give efrat, help young pregnant moms
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 4:21 pm
You made the best decision you could given the information and knowledge you had then.
Your good heart is making you feel guilty now, but please don't beat yourself up about it.
You are a good person and on a good path. Hug
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 5:28 pm
Halacha does actually allow abortions in certain circumstances. For example, a young girl or single woman who gets pregnant may be allowed an abortion according to some opinions. Its actually a lot more lenient then you would think.

Abortion is not murder. You can't murder a healthy person to harvest their heart or kidneys or other life saving body part, even if it means someone will die without it, but you can perform an abortion if the pregnancy will kill or even harm the mother.

Obviously we value the life of each baby and its only in very extreme circumstances that a frum woman would seek an abortion, but please don't feel guilty. You did something that possibly wasn't ok according to Jewish law but you didn't know about that then. Plus you lived in some crazy place where they seem to use abortion like birth control. Sad
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 5:42 pm
Raisin wrote:
Halacha does actually allow abortions in certain circumstances. For example, a young girl or single woman who gets pregnant may be allowed an abortion according to some opinions. Its actually a lot more lenient then you would think.

Abortion is not murder. You can't murder a healthy person to harvest their heart or kidneys or other life saving body part, even if it means someone will die without it, but you can perform an abortion if the pregnancy will kill or even harm the mother.

Obviously we value the life of each baby and its only in very extreme circumstances that a frum woman would seek an abortion, but please don't feel guilty. You did something that possibly wasn't ok according to Jewish law but you didn't know about that then. Plus you lived in some crazy place where they seem to use abortion like birth control. Sad


I am curious, why might it be paskened that a single woman be allowed an abortion on the grounds that she is single? 🤔
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:17 pm
Raisin wrote:
Halacha does actually allow abortions in certain circumstances. For example, a young girl or single woman who gets pregnant may be allowed an abortion according to some opinions. Its actually a lot more lenient then you would think.

Abortion is not murder. You can't murder a healthy person to harvest their heart or kidneys or other life saving body part, even if it means someone will die without it, but you can perform an abortion if the pregnancy will kill or even harm the mother.

Obviously we value the life of each baby and its only in very extreme circumstances that a frum woman would seek an abortion, but please don't feel guilty. You did something that possibly wasn't ok according to Jewish law but you didn't know about that then. Plus you lived in some crazy place where they seem to use abortion like birth control. Sad

I disagree with the part that abortion is not murder...but feel guilty about it? exactly the opposite of Judaism. you regret it because you got more religious, and this is exactly what we teach, as long you regret it, and do t'shuvah everything is ok, and no guilt....
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:40 pm
amother wrote:
I am curious, why might it be paskened that a single woman be allowed an abortion on the grounds that she is single? 🤔


This is not based on any type of personal experience.

Its based on a class my husband gave once and his computer is acting up so he can't give me his source sheet right now. From what I remember there is a wide divergence of opinions when abortion is and is not allowed (Reb Moshe Feinstein was quite strict iirc) and some rabbanim are very lenient indeed. Probably a lot more lenient then most of us would be.

I was very surprised myself to learn about this btw. I think a lot of us are a lot more influenced by xtian teachings on this then we realise.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:45 pm
Raisin wrote:
This is not based on any type of personal experience.

Its based on a class my husband gave once and his computer is acting up so he can't give me his source sheet right now. From what I remember there is a wide divergence of opinions when abortion is and is not allowed (Reb Moshe Feinstein was quite strict iirc) and some rabbanim are very lenient indeed. Probably a lot more lenient then most of us would be.

I was very surprised myself to learn about this btw. I think a lot of us are a lot more influenced by xtian teachings on this then we realise.

Are you saying Rabbi Feinstein was influenced by xian teaching?

people were more lenient when people were starving and there were zero resources. Every pregnancy back then was a threat to the mother's life.

Rabbi Feinstein wisely understand that in todays day and age we must place value on life

Which is why Orthodox Jewish rabbonim hold by Rabbi Feinstein and do not allow abortion to be used willy nilly
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amother
Orange


 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 6:56 pm
Raisin wrote:
This is not based on any type of personal experience.

Its based on a class my husband gave once and his computer is acting up so he can't give me his source sheet right now. From what I remember there is a wide divergence of opinions when abortion is and is not allowed (Reb Moshe Feinstein was quite strict iirc) and some rabbanim are very lenient indeed. Probably a lot more lenient then most of us would be.

I was very surprised myself to learn about this btw. I think a lot of us are a lot more influenced by xtian teachings on this then we realise.


It doesn't make sense why a single woman should be having an abortion. The question would be: why is a single woman pregnant? Was she raped? If that's the case then it's a different story.

OP: I have a dear friend who had an abortion when she was 21. She cried bitterly even then and still regrets it now 14 years later. I understand her pain and yours aswell. I hope for you that you can feel the regret without the guilt and that you can forgive yourself because you didn't know better.
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 7:17 pm
amother wrote:
It doesn't make sense why a single woman should be having an abortion. The question would be: why is a single woman pregnant? Was she raped? If that's the case then it's a different story.

OP: I have a dear friend who had an abortion when she was 21. She cried bitterly even then and still regrets it now 14 years later. I understand her pain and yours aswell. I hope for you that you can feel the regret without the guilt and that you can forgive yourself because you didn't know better.


Not to derail OP’s original post, but I was a single woman who was pregnant. And no, it wasn’t rape. Nobody frum in my life suggested abortion. For me, it wasn’t an option.

But OP, this is something you did a long time ago and you have children now. Find a way to forgive yourself, even if it is was as previously suggested, mourning for the loss of potential life. And do remember that is what it was. A foetus that is aborted is a potential life, not an actual child. Hugs and Hatzlacha.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 18 2019, 7:22 pm
ectomorph wrote:
Are you saying Rabbi Feinstein was influenced by xian teaching?

people were more lenient when people were starving and there were zero resources. Every pregnancy back then was a threat to the mother's life.

Rabbi Feinstein wisely understand that in todays day and age we must place value on life

Which is why Orthodox Jewish rabbonim hold by Rabbi Feinstein and do not allow abortion to be used willy nilly


I'm sure Rabbi Feinstein was interpreting halacha. But either way I don't think he would say abortion is murder. There is a time and place for it, even if it extremely rare. We place value on life, hence abortion is in some cases allowed.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Tue, Mar 19 2019, 1:39 pm
OP here Thanks for the support Yes many years had passed since I did what I did and thank god I have good children. I am not depressed thank god.Back then it seemed like a right decision and grown up people made it seemed irelevent no big deal they told me everybody do that. Today I understand the importance of the right guidence in life. you cant give advice lightly on the ireversable decisions. But life goes on and this act will be part of me
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 19 2019, 4:50 pm
amother wrote:
OP here Thanks for the support Yes many years had passed since I did what I did and thank god I have good children. I am not depressed thank god.Back then it seemed like a right decision and grown up people made it seemed irelevent no big deal they told me everybody do that. Today I understand the importance of the right guidence in life. you cant give advice lightly on the ireversable decisions. But life goes on and this act will be part of me


I'm sorry you were given such bad advice. Sad

Enjoy your children. Be the best mother you can for them - and when iyh they get married and have kids give them support.

A person who has not learnt halacha is not considered to have done an aveira. They are considered a tinok shenishba - a child who was kidnapped and never got to learn torah.
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Tue, Mar 19 2019, 7:48 pm
can relate
and this thread truly helped me
I hope it has helped you also Op
thank you
wishing you only good
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 19 2019, 8:00 pm
you cannot change the past ... you're allowed to mourn every now & again Hug
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Thu, Mar 21 2019, 8:58 pm
I found this recent podcast from Chochmat Nashim an excellent explanation of the Jewish perspective on abortion. Maybe the OP will find it helpful or comforting in some way.

http://feeds.soundcloud.com/st.....0.mp3
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