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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach
So...How's your pesach hotel going???
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amother
Azure


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 5:41 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
Amazing! Decent food (ok maybe a bit too much meat and I’m a drop scared about the kashrus), nice diverse crowd, exotic location, fancy 5 star resort, amazing activities, babysitter avail (for a price).


You’re a drop scared about the kashrus? And you said that as an afterthought,,,maybe your priorities are a little twisted? Or does the “nice diverse crowd, exotic location, fancy 5 star resort, amazing activities, babysitter avail” make up for the slight inconvenience of a not great hashgacha?
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 5:55 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
You’re a drop scared about the kashrus? And you said that as an afterthought,,,maybe your priorities are a little twisted? Or does the “nice diverse crowd, exotic location, fancy 5 star resort, amazing activities, babysitter avail” make up for the slight inconvenience of a not great hashgacha?


What a way to judge.

No, I do not want to be in this hotel. Morocco is great but....

Yes, I do have a Chiyuv of kibud Av v’aim.

Yes our rav said whenever we are with our in-laws we must respect them and eat what they eat.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 5:58 pm
I've been going to the same program for years and it's going great!
Way too much food!(as usual! LOL )
New day camp heads so kids like it better.
Entertainment at night is really nice but start super late so we all go to sleep after midnight and wake up late in the morning for the whole pessach.
Hotels have pros and cons, I try to have a good attitude and not concentrate on stuff that bother me. (like the bathroom lock that doesn't work, missing plug in the tub, sharing a room with the kids and a couple of bathrooms instead of 4 at home!!)
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amother
Azure


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:25 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
What a way to judge.

No, I do not want to be in this hotel. Morocco is great but....

Yes, I do have a Chiyuv of kibud Av v’aim.

Yes our rav said whenever we are with our in-laws we must respect them and eat what they eat.


I Don’t believe any reputable rabbi encourages someone to eat questionable kashrut even for kibud av, sorry.
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dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:29 pm
Could be that she is more machmir than parents but When she is with parents you go according to parents.

Many people eat very limited & restricted ingredients on pesach & you don't know what ingredients they use when you are in a commercial hotel.
Doesn't mean the venue is not kosher. For her it's not kosher enough
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:31 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
I Don’t believe any reputable rabbi encourages someone to eat questionable kashrut even for kibud av, sorry.


Omg you are obnoxious! Leave her alone.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:33 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
I Don’t believe any reputable rabbi encourages someone to eat questionable kashrut even for kibud av, sorry.


Some Rabbis are not aware of the Kashrus concerns of hotels. For example, food is heated nowadays in convection ovens. The oven turns off when the door is opened and goes back on when it is closed. If a gentile waiter opens the convection oven to help himself to some food, when the door closes and the heat turns back on, all the food now has a problem of bishul akum.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:35 pm
My husband used to be a mashgiach at pesach hotel and we would never eat there. Way too many leniencies and possible issues.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:42 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
I Don’t believe any reputable rabbi encourages someone to eat questionable kashrut even for kibud av, sorry.


Actually they do. I know people who will drink non CY milk in their parents’ homes on the advice of Rabbonim when they never would in their own homes. The Pesach program likely doesn’t have “questionable kashrut” but just less Machmir than the poster would ideally choose for her and her family. This could be a different Hechsher or specific Pesach stringencies regarding processed food. It is quite likely a Rav would say Kivud Av trumps an added stringency.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:45 pm
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
My husband used to be a mashgiach at pesach hotel and we would never eat there. Way too many leniencies and possible issues.


So your husband certified food, telling others that it was completely kosher and acceptable to eat (which is his job as a mashgiach) although he didn't believe that it was actually kosher or acceptable?

IOW, he caused people to eat food that he didnt' believe was kosher?

Pretty shocking.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:52 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
So your husband certified food, telling others that it was completely kosher and acceptable to eat (which is his job as a mashgiach) although he didn't believe that it was actually kosher or acceptable?

IOW, he caused people to eat food that he didnt' believe was kosher?

Pretty shocking.

He wouldn't eat it but they use leniencies that are ok by the Rav certifying it. That he wouldn't use at home.

It's super common that mashgichim bring their own food to pesach hotels. Or only eat a few things the whole time.

There's even a joke.

If you are having pesach with your parents, chag kosher vsameach.

Pesach with your in laws, chag kosher.

Pesach in a hotel, chag sameach.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 7:56 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
So your husband certified food, telling others that it was completely kosher and acceptable to eat (which is his job as a mashgiach) although he didn't believe that it was actually kosher or acceptable?

IOW, he caused people to eat food that he didnt' believe was kosher?

Pretty shocking.


He probably works for a kashrus agency and is doing his job and checking to make sure everything is the way it supposed to be according to their guidelines.
That doesn't mean that those guidelines are good enough for him.
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dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 8:00 pm
She also might be in a different location than she is used to & nervous because she doesnt know the rabbis/supervision/ hashgacha or familiar with their guidelines so she doesnt know if she can trust it or not although her in-laws do rely on it.
ETA I know when I am local, I know which hashgacha I rely on.
When I eat in a restaurant in a different location, which usually is under the rabbinical supervision from that location, who everyone in that location rely on, I don't know to which hashgacha that I rely on to a compare it to, if I can trust it or not. When I ask owner or customers they tell me sure it's a good supervision, everyone uses it here.
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 8:15 pm
my dh is a bt. yes rabbis pasken that for sholom bayis-aka visiting his family members we should eat food that might not otherwise be up to the kashrus standards he would recommend. I am not talking treif here, just not the same standards, hechsheirim etc...
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amother
Purple


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 10:35 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
So your husband certified food, telling others that it was completely kosher and acceptable to eat (which is his job as a mashgiach) although he didn't believe that it was actually kosher or acceptable?

IOW, he caused people to eat food that he didnt' believe was kosher?

Pretty shocking.


Ya I wasn’t thrilled to find out at our program (super stringent, peel the veggies type) the rabbi and the mashgiach has their own food Confused
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 10:45 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
Ya I wasn’t thrilled to find out at our program (super stringent, peel the veggies type) the rabbi and the mashgiach has their own food Confused


Going anon so I don't give away too much. But after seeing and hearing a lot of the inside information of what a mashgiachs responsibilities are and what he's up against, I have stopped eating at many kosher establishments. When you have to be the one to put your foot down and say that the whole case of lettuce needs to be rechecked or thrown out because it's infested with bugs while the owner and chef are ready to punch you, it's understandable that leniencies will be relied on more often than not. That's just one example but there are thousands that any mashgiach can tell you and no matter how committed he may be, his power is very limited.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 10:55 pm
My relative worked at a restaurant, they were told by mashgiach that only first few eggs need to be checked & first few lettuce & rely rest is ok.
At another place mashgiach came only once a year when he needed to pick up his annual payment. When she refused to give the money because he hadn't done his job, he threatened to remove his hechsher & publicize that this establishment is not kosher.
Another person I know who was manufacturing & importing a product from a different country, mashgiach was supposed to be at designated time for the kosher run, he never arrived & threatened that he shouldn't tell anyone that he wasn't there, because hashgacha will be taken off his product. It sold with the hashgacha, certifying agency had no idea mashgiach was not there.
Eta
Since then these 2 hechsheirim I am wary of.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 11:07 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
Going anon so I don't give away too much. But after seeing and hearing a lot of the inside information of what a mashgiachs responsibilities are and what he's up against, I have stopped eating at many kosher establishments. When you have to be the one to put your foot down and say that the whole case of lettuce needs to be rechecked or thrown out because it's infested with bugs while the owner and chef are ready to punch you, it's understandable that leniencies will be relied on more often than not. That's just one example but there are thousands that any mashgiach can tell you and no matter how committed he may be, his power is very limited.

Yes. I am uncomfortable naming specific restaurants publicly, but my family member in hashgacha told me that a specific restaurant in Boro Park, the owner tells the mashgichim that he is ok losing money but he wants to be extremely kosher. I would only feel comfortable eating there. I'm sure there's others.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 11:12 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
Ya I wasn’t thrilled to find out at our program (super stringent, peel the veggies type) the rabbi and the mashgiach has their own food Confused

What type of program offers only peeled vegetables?
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2019, 11:15 pm
amother [ Orange ] wrote:
My relative worked at a restaurant, they were told by mashgiach that only first few eggs need to be checked & first few lettuce & rely rest is ok.
At another place mashgiach came only once a year when he needed to pick up his annual payment. When she refused to give the money because he hadn't done his job, he threatened to remove his hechsher & publicize that this establishment is not kosher.
Another person I know who was manufacturing & importing a product from a different country, mashgiach was supposed to be at designated time for the kosher run, he never arrived & threatened that he shouldn't tell anyone that he wasn't there, because hashgacha will be taken off his product. It sold with the hashgacha, certifying agency had no idea mashgiach was not there.
Eta
Since then these 2 hechsheirim I am wary of.

Eggs do not need to be checked these days accordingly to many.
When dealing with commercial food only a small fraction of the vegetables need to be checked and as long as the vegetables that were checked are found to be bug free, according to halacha the rest is considered kosher. The same halacha does not apply at home.
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