Is there a correlation- Increase of Gashmiyus = Antisemitism

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 2:43 pm

Let's see. Where are we going to go with this?
Let's say the answer is yes. Then do we say, "Phew, we live frugally so it's not our issue"?
Or, and I'm sure no one was even thinking this, do we say, "That's why x happened, because that community was living too large"?

First of all we have to accept that there is no direct correlation between x happening to a particular person. They are pure karbonos and now in an exalted place in the olam ha'emes. And Esav sonei l'Yaakov. The only formula that works is if we can work to bring Moshiach. That's working on ourselves, not trying to appease the anti-Semites.

However, we need to learn something. Besides the first lesson: That when someone dies, like Mrs. Kaye, Hy"d, we hear of a jewel in our midst we might not have known of before, and it is incumbent on us to collectively try to spread the light that the niftar/nifteres no longer can.

We do have to reflect on how we can improve. Not how yenem can because of course it's yenem's fault. There are many, many arenas. People should start with bein odom lachaveiro. And of course not ignore bein adom laMakom. Rabbanim should be speaking to and challenging their kehillos. We should be mechazek each other in our endeavors.

Pardon the rambling, hope this was cohesive.

ora_43

Wed, May 01 2019, 12:51 am

byisrael wrote:

In the past 15- 20 years the frum standards of living have skyrocketed. Our homes tend to be large and beautiful, and in frum areas there is alot of knocking down of the existing homes and building large beautiful ones (lakewood is an extreme example of this but this exists to some extant all over).
From the outside everything tends to look very expensive and glamorous (the fancy strollers, leased cars, gorgeous sheitals, brand name clothing, huge (on secular standards) weddings)...

For one thing, I think you're overestimating how rich Jews look to non-Jews. There are plenty of non-Jewish communities where huge houses and private school are the norm. New York City has over 380,000 millionaires, how many people are really looking at some young mother in Williamsburg with a nice sheitel and a brand-name stroller and thinking of her as an example of a wealthy person?

But OK, maybe to people in poor neighborhoods right next to middle-class Jewish neighborhoods, Jews look rich.

But - none of the shooters who attacked Jews (or tried to) in the past decade were from anywhere near those neighborhoods! These are people from small town America, places with virtually no Jewish population.

If you want to argue that there's a connection on a spiritual level, there's no way to disprove that. But if you want to argue for a practical connection - I just don't see it.

amother

Lime

Wed, May 01 2019, 1:05 am

A lot of the violence is in N.Y. Sure, there are millionaires there, but there are plenty of poor people, too. And many of the Jewish neighborhoods (say, Crown Heights) are smack in the middle of poorer neighborhoods. There have been many incidents lately of Jewish men being attacked and beaten up in N.Y. , all by lower income minorities. It just hasn't been widely covered. There are more incidents there against obviously Orthodox Jews than anywhere else. The NYT recently had an article on this. They didn't have an answer as to why it's mostly been ignored by the media.

DrMom

Wed, May 01 2019, 2:01 am

Look, I agree that Jews should not commit chilul HaShem, but if somebody is a true anti-Semite, it doesn't matter what Jews do: they are hated.

Look at what happened recently to the US Ambassador to Poland. She wished the Jews of Poland "Happy Passover" and got slammed by Polish anti-Semites:

https://www.ynetnews.com/artic......html

(I invite you to actually look at the twitter feed; very enlightening)

Meanwhile, Polish villagers participated in their annual Good Friday ritual of beheading and burning a Jew in effigy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivrmym5yUIU

There are fewer than 10,000 Jews living on Poland, a country of almost 39 million people. Even at 0.03% of the population, Jews are the target of hate. Did those 0.03% of the population do something to attract this hatred? How many of these effigy-burning villagers ever met a single Jew?

Jews do not even need to be present for anti-Semitism to thrive. All you need is enough incitement by the Catholic church, or by anti-Israeli leftists in universities, or anti-foreigner xenophobia, and you're all set.

southernbubby

Wed, May 01 2019, 8:34 am

When I lived in Detroit, for many years our neighbors were a well educated black couple who worked their way out of poverty. They were in awe of the Jewish infrastructure that didn't exist in the black community. They at least understood that it was the failure of the black community to organise rather than blaming Jewish causes for helping Jews rather than blacks but in Crown Heights and Williamsburg, where frum organizations help Jews beat others out of section 8, there is lots of resentment and hatred.

In neighborhoods like that, what Jews do is very visible and the ability of other groups to organise and advocate for themselves is lacking compared to the Jews. Politicians who want their vote earn it by promising to fight the Jewish slumlords (a situation where the animosity may be justified).

We have to remember that we also don't always have the kindest of feelings toward the other constituents of our communities.

Fox

Wed, May 01 2019, 11:44 am

The answer to this question, like so many others, will ultimately be unsatisfying -- because the answer is "Yes."

Yes -- we should avoid ostentatious displays of wealth in order to avoid jealousy on the part of non-Jews; and
Yes -- anti-Semitism will occur regardless.

And, for that matter:

Yes -- women shouldn't be deliberately provocative in their dress or manner; and
Yes -- men should keep their eyes to themselves.

Yes -- we should give charity freely; and
Yes -- people should endeavor to support themselves.
_______________________________

What is often difficult for those of us in the frum community to remember is that we are somewhat unique because we live in economically diverse communities. In many frum neighborhoods, the richest and the poorest live side by side, or at least block by block.

That's not true for American society in general. A non-Jew living in Crown Heights is unlikely to encounter non-Jewish multi-millionaires while hanging out on Empire Boulevard or Eastern Parkway. Non-Jewish multi-millionaires are safely tucked away on the Upper East Side, SoHo, or even Park Slope. They don't pass the poor non-Jew on the street or jostle with him for space on the sidewalk. But it's possible and even likely that he will encounter frum Jews of considerable means in his neighborhood.

If we want to live in economically diverse communities, we have to be sensitive. Just as you don't crow on and on about pregnancy and babies in the presence of someone experiencing IF, you don't behave insensitively around people who are less financially secure, including non-Jews. This shouldn't be rocket science.

I recently read an article about the inherent problems with meritocracy -- the idea that individuals should be elevated based on their individual merits. At first glance, it seems obvious that individual merit is a better way to allocate privileges such as school admission, promotions, business opportunities, etc.

But in extending the reach of meritocracy, we have lost the concept of "noblesse oblige" -- the idea that those who are more privileged have a duty to behave with generosity and nobility toward those less privileged.

When someone says, "It's my money; I earned it," he is not just discounting the role of Hashem; he is refusing to acknowledge the obligation of noblesse oblige. And part of noblesse oblige is taking pains to avoid being thoughtlessly hurtful in the display of wealth, yichus, or similar privilege.

So while the comparative financial or professional success of the Jews doesn't promote or eliminate anti-Semitism, the lack of direct correlation shouldn't be an excuse to behave badly.