HPV vax mandate without parental notice

amother

Tan

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:32 am

sky wrote:

.

The government isn’t forcing it. The child is making a choice.

I haven’t given the vaccine. But if a child feels he is engaging in at risk behavior and doesn’t want to tell mother he should have the right to protect himself.

The issue on hand is not forcing it. The issue on hand is referring to overriding the parents' decisions. A young teen is not really in the position of understanding the pros and cons of any medical advice, therefore her/his choice is not really a choice.

Once you set precedent with allowing the government to override parents' decisions, it will be used as the legal precedent in any future situations. Does anyone really think it will be limited to this one situation? It will come back to bite us, and quite badly.

I'm not using that argument for or against this vaccine. If this vaccine is of critical importance, find another way to get parents to come around to it. Overriding parents's authority over their children is definitely not the way to go.

amother

Tan

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:35 am

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

I think the danger here lies with the control of the nanny state.

You're all fine with it when you believe it's what your kids need in life. What happens when it contradicts your belief?

Do you believe in parental rights or a nanny state?

Does your child deserve a full American education? Close down private education? Lose your cheder and BY schools?
Does your child deserve to learn about relations ed at age 5 as the state wants them to?
Does your child get to do well visits without a parent? Be prescribed Ritalin without your consent?

There is no line when it comes to choosing who has rights over your child. Once you lose your voice it's gone!

You can't pick and choose when it suits you.

That last line just about sums it up. When the gov't will use the same arguments for another situation, we'll all be on here screaming either anti-semitism, communism, or other similar excuses. That's the context to think of here, not if my teen has the choice to override the parent's decision.

amother

Tan

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:43 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

I am currently fighting cancer cause by hpv. I was a good kid. I never had s-xual contact outside my marriage. I refused the shot when It was offered to me at age 22 because I'm a frum girl and no way I need it.

Now I regret it. I will not make that same mistake for my children. No side affect compares to cancer. Your VERY GOOD kid can get hpv too. Even with a 1 in 100 chance, do you know for certain that your child won't be that 1?
You've been given a tool to protect your kids and you're throwing it away??
I wish my mother wasn't as stubborn as some of you.

Keep in mind, the vaccine has to be given BEFORE being sxually active. Once the child already contracted hpv the vaccine will not be as affective.

I don't understand why the issue of the children having the choice to get this vaccine is such a concern in our communities. Very few of our children are s-xually active before they're 18, and once they're 18 they can legally make the decision.

The ones that are s-xually active, are a solid minority. And of that solid minority, there's a good percentage whose parents are ok with giving the vaccine, consequently making that minority even a smaller consideration for this concern.

Based on that, shouldn't we be more concerned about granting government an overreaching power, that will assuredly extend into other areas of lives in our future? Isn't that quite a troubling concern for us, especially with all our religious differences?

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, May 08 2019, 10:20 am

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Let me comment on just the bolded:

It is already the case in all 50 states that minors can buy condoms without parental consent. In most states, minors can get other forms of contraception without parental consent. In almost all states (Arizona may be an exception), minors can get treated for STDs without parental consent. To all of which I say, thank God that minors have the ability to use their good sense to protect themselves. They have a much better idea of their sex lives than their parents do, and thus they should have more of a say in dealing with the consequences. Getting the HPV is just another form of dealing with STDs -- in this case preventing STDs -- so it certainly makes sense for minors to decide to get the HPV without parental consent.

Perhaps this is because I am no longer in New York, perhaps because I avoid using Orthodox doctors, but for years now, doctors kick me out of the part of the well-visit where a kid is asked about s-xual activity. I'm happy about that. Not that I want my kids engaging in sex at this point. Ideally, I'd like them to wait until marriage. But if they're going to be doing it, I want them to be safe, and I know they're more likely to talk to a doctor honestly if I'm not part of the conversation. I don't understand any other point of view. We know that our kids don't always turn out exactly like we did. Don't we want them to live in good health anyway?

JoyInTheMorning

Wed, May 08 2019, 10:22 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

What does communism have to do with anything? Do you mean to say totalitarianism?

singleagain

Wed, May 08 2019, 10:23 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

This is a very good point.

Especially in cultures where talking about sx is taboo.. Or meet with punishment... A minor might be afraid to admit to their parents that they have an STD and if you leave these things too long that's not good.

amother

Tan

Wed, May 08 2019, 12:41 pm

southernbubby wrote:

But isn't there a difference between forcing people to do something or simply offering them the choice at an earlier age?

Sometimes children are given choices in custody decisions.

A child has the capacity and the means to weigh a decision in choosing which parent he/she would like to live with.

Most children do not have the means nor the full understanding of the impact of medical choices.

amother

Sienna

Wed, May 08 2019, 12:54 pm

southernbubby wrote:

But isn't there a difference between forcing people to do something or simply offering them the choice at an earlier age?

Sometimes children are given choices in custody decisions.

When it comes to having zex minors are not considered capable of giving consent - even when they do. How can we expect them to consent in this case when it comes to making medical decisions?

amother

Mint

Wed, May 08 2019, 2:31 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

When it comes to having zex minors are not considered capable of giving consent - even when they do. How can we expect them to consent in this case when it comes to making medical decisions?

Age of consent varies by state. For example in NY it’s 17 and in Maryland it’s 16. Most states have “Romeo and Juliett” laws about this with partners so even younger kids can consent as long as their partner is not too much older than them. In Maryland kids as young as 14 can consent as long as their partner is not more than 4 years older.

dancingqueen

Wed, May 08 2019, 2:35 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

When it comes to having zex minors are not considered capable of giving consent - even when they do. How can we expect them to consent in this case when it comes to making medical decisions?

They are not capable of giving consent to an adult, but they can and do give consent to s-xual activities with other teens. And usually they don’t ask permission from parents first. The hpv vaccine is much more effective if given before any s-xual activity. So this is a good thing IMO.

urban gypsy

Wed, May 08 2019, 3:13 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I see it all over the frum community and I remember this from my childhood: teachers and students alike misusing the word "communism."

It doesn't make the frum community look good. We should fix it -- which is why I commented.

Frum people are not the worst offenders in this by far. I think it's more of a "red-blooded American redneck" sort of mistake to make. But yes, good catch, words have meanings and it's important to use them correctly.

amother

Gray

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:35 pm

southernbubby wrote:

For many people, the vaccine can save their lives but for celibate and mutually monogamous people, the benefits don't appear to be as obvious. Some of the parents of my grandchildren are choosing the majority of vaccines but don't feel that Gardasil will make much of a difference for them personally.

We all hope and assume that for our children but life doesn’t always work out that way.

1ofbillions

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:37 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

This is baloney my dear.

I’m not commenting on this specific example because I’m not well educated in this area. But did you see the pic that went around of a public school class on a school trip to an art show, in which a group of boys were standing near an exhibit of female private parts?

There was a woman standing naked, her breasts and vul-va completely exposed, in addition to plastic models of vulvas.

The direction this country is going in is so insane, it terrifies me.

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:48 pm

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

We all hope and assume that for our children but life doesn’t always work out that way.

The vaccine is most effective if given between the ages of 11 and 14 but that may be because a large percentage of young teens are sezually active. After the age of 26, it's mostly a missed opportunity. The cancers take years to develop and are usually survive-able if caught early but there are still 4000 deaths a year from cervical cancer and I am not sure if other HPV cancer deaths are represented in that number.
I do agree that all sezually active teens need to be advised to take the vaccine.
As to the risks of the vaccine, I am sure that there is a small risk but that is one vaccine that could be negotiable, particularly if kids can get it at age 16 if they see that they need it.