Disciplining the defiant

yksraya

Tue, May 07 2019, 10:39 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

So what are you doing in the moment? It's late and you need to bring your brood inside. He's refusing to come in. Not now, not in five minutes, not in ten minutes, not to play with his Lego or take a bubble bath or watch a WhatsApp video of his cousins. He's staying outside until he decides he's ready to come in. What are you doing?

I would ignore it. When he comes in, just pretend nothing just happened. That way he got absolutely no attention for it. That should hopefully stop this kind of behavior.

amother

Copper

Tue, May 07 2019, 10:44 pm

yksraya wrote:

I would ignore it. When he comes in, just pretend nothing just happened. That way he got absolutely no attention for it. That should hopefully stop this kind of behavior.

I would not leave a five year old outside riding his bike alone at dusk. I guess this depends where you live, but it's not safe in my neighborhood. Also, he's not doing it for attention. He's doing it because he genuinely wants to stay outside. And his opinion on when it's time to come in, to his mind, is just as valid as mine is.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, May 07 2019, 11:01 pm

Just wanted to give a shout out to the OP, you sound incredible. Raising young, strong children is exhausting and depleting. Kids are so good at reading when parents are tired, haven’t taken care of themselves, losing patience... basically sniffing out little ways that they can breach authority and test limits. This is part of normal, healthy development. Besides for some of the wonderful books that were suggested, taking care of yourself is so valuable. You will feel so much more calm and able to stand your ground!

yksraya

Tue, May 07 2019, 11:42 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Not at 5! At 7-8 and older.

Laiya

Tue, May 07 2019, 11:43 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

I see I’m the voice of dissent here , but sometimes you do need to punish. If it’s balanced with mostly positive/ “collaborative” parenting , your child will be just fine. He will learn that some actions are just never ok and there are consequences . BUT you need to limit punishment to very specific circumstances, and have a very specific punishment or consequence ready to implement which was discussed with him previously. Whether it’s time out with a timer or earlier bedtime , it needs to be something that matters to him. And that you can enforce . My son knows that hurting is never allowed and he will go to his room, kicking and screaming , for five minutes . I used to have to carry him ( and he’s 6!) but now he just goes up himself when I say “ time out. “ And it’s happening less and less ..

Agree with this. Time-out is ok if it's rare and very specific and immediately enforced, like 5 minutes for a 5 year old. After time-out, he apologizes, and then it's over.

The apology should include the name of the person he's apologizing to, what he's apologizing for, why it was wrong and what he'll do in the future. ("I'm sorry Yossi for hitting you. It was wrong because it hurt you. Next time I will use my words.") Having this discussion is important because we want to cultivate empathy.

yksraya

Tue, May 07 2019, 11:45 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

Not the OP but I’m imagining ignoring my sons desire to stay outside past his bedtime ... lol. He’s definitely do it again and his siblings would join in too!

Kids know right from wrong. They are not out to get me and do mischief. I have 6 kids, dd is 14 and 5 boys the oldest is 12. I'm kinda talking from experience and shared what worked for me.

amother

Ivory

Wed, May 08 2019, 12:04 am

id say ONCE and very clearly that within 5 minutes we all go inside.
after 5 minutes we all go inside.
if a child repeatedly ignores me (he never comes inside in the evenings with his siblings) I would ignore it wait for him, when he decides it is time to go inside id take him to the side, and calmly yet firmly explain to him that unfortunately he hasnt understood that tese rule is a safety rule that MUST be followed. because you cannot stretch the time (supper bedtyme etc are ahead other kids need mommy ...) the consequence will be no outside time tomorrow.
next time your kids want to play outside say calmly: im so sorry kids but we cannot play outside today because as much as id love you to play outside it is very important to start evening routine stressfree and happy at 6pm. and because it didnt work out the last couple of times (no mention of names, no bashing/blaming a specific kid, just matter of fact) and I like eating supper with you in a nice friendly environment and get eveyone to bed stressfree it is better to just stay inside and avoid the arguments.
offer them playtime inside (prvide crayons for example)

they most likely will protest. if not on day one, after the second or thrid attempt they will ask to go outside and you can say: with pleasure but we need to stick to rules in order to do so. make few but rigid rules that every kid understands. be calm and firm and give them the feeling that you TOGETHER are looking for a solution. 'I understand yossy that you might feel it is not the right time to come inside when mommy asks you to come inside, but nevertheless you will have to come inside.' lets see if we will manage today: practice it. REWARD them, surprise them with some unexpected fun and say: hey becuase it worked so well there will be an extra story for bedtime or hey yossy was the first inside he may choose what pastasauce we will serve for supper...

dankbar

Wed, May 08 2019, 12:08 am

Depends on child. If it's about punishing, its mom against child, some children will always want to win. It becomes a power struggle. The punishment shouldn't be a war against child. It should be natural consequences.

You tell the child before he goes out the timing when he has to be back. I trust you & expect/know that you will follow. If I see that you comply today then you can go out tomorrow as well. If child is late, then he misses his time outside tommorrow, then it's a natural consequence.

amother

Sienna

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:59 am

Some children are born with an oppositional nature. Often well meaning adults (teachers, guest, extended family will turn into the age of the child as they start fighting with him.)
Often, this child has an extreme sensitive nature coupled with a greater than average ego.
Use your intuition wisely.
Dont listen to parenting advice that is geared to the average brain.
books on oppositional defiant disorder might help.
And if you see a therapist, it has to match match match with your son. The therapist requires a sixth sense as to how the childs brain works and will require a sharpness, an intelligence.
This kind of child usually will connect well with a therapist that is extra kind but strong and macho.
Hatzlocha!! You could see a bunch of nachas after all the hard work!!

FranticFrummie

Wed, May 08 2019, 1:16 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

All of this, but especially the bolded. Some kids davka don't care about natural consequences, because whatever they are doing at the moment is worth whatever the consequence is going to be, and you'll still lose. That means that consequences need to be HUGE, for even a small infraction. This just leads you into another power struggle, and makes you feel horrible and mean.

You definitely need to get some professional guidance about this kid, before he gets too old to control at all.

FranticFrummie

Wed, May 08 2019, 1:19 pm

I forgot to ask, how does he behave at school, and at other kids houses? Have you been getting reports of oppositional behavior?

If he is showing this behavior all around, then he needs help.
If he is just showing this at home, then the family needs help.

I know that everyone says to run to therapy here, but in this case I think it's good advice. I can imagine a future with a very unhappy boy and some very frustrated parents. This needs to be dealt with ASAP.