If you don’t vaccinate

momsrus

Tue, May 14 2019, 11:34 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

That's how racism works. Grouping people and making negative assumptions about them based on behavior of others in the group you made.

In this case, it also may have nothing to do with willingness or ability to handle children at home, vs. seeing first-hand that the potential emotional damage to their children from the hatefest going on was more compelling than the potential physical damage from the vaccine.

Of course, you can be proud of yourself for that. Because the only way you can convince someone is to hate them enough that they capitulate. Not like, with actual discussion, hearing what they have to say and showing them how other factors may override their otherwise valid concerns.

Reminds me of a hospital I once saw advertised: "I believe in _____ Medical Center!" Because if you ever actually went there, you knew that trust was impossible (it was a lousy hospital), but belief at least can transcend logic.

Yup racist. You are all lumped together a one big selfish group.

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, May 14 2019, 11:38 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

If you DO vaccinate, do you:

Consider yourself immune to everything, so feel free to go to work with a fever? No
Pass around RSV to newborns because since there is no vaccine it is nothing to worry about? No
Take your small babies around and expose them to everyone's germs because hey, they're vaccinated? No
Treat your doctor's words as divine and never do your own research?
No human being's word is divine, but my father is my doctor so yes I trust him to do the research.

Is vaccinating PART of a life where you take normal hishtadlus and are considerate of others, or the ONLY thing you do to be considerate of others?
Um, yes I try to be considerate of others in all areas. And I do normal hishtadlus, which I believe includes following accepted medical practices.

Life isn't all black and white.

(All my kids that were old enough got the MMR.)

amother

Burgundy

Tue, May 14 2019, 11:42 pm

momsrus wrote:

Yup racist. You are all lumped together a one big selfish group.

Should I perhaps lump all vaxxers into a group of holier-than-thou sheeple, who are in denial about vaccine reactions, consider doctors to be infallible beings, and need to use intimidation tactics because they are incapable of rational debate?

Or do you recognize the fallacy of making large-scale assumptions about a broad spectrum of people?

amother

Burgundy

Tue, May 14 2019, 11:51 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

Um, yes I try to be considerate of others in all areas. And I do normal hishtadlus, which I believe includes following accepted medical practices.

If you read my follow-up post, I was not insinuating that everyone who vaccinates is irresponsible about health. I know that many are.

However, I think we can all think of a few people who may vaccinate, but see nothing wrong with taking a Motrin for the fever and coming to work anyhow, with visiting a newborn despite their child having a cough, bring small babies to weddings, and never consider questioning the doctor.

The same way that they are STILL making the right choice by vaccinating, despite their other poor choices, a person can make a decision NOT to vaccinate if that is right for their child, irrespective of their other positive or poor parenting decisions.

amother

Linen

Wed, May 15 2019, 12:15 am

youngishbear wrote:

So if someone only vaccinates during an outbreak, what they're basically saying is that they're perfectly fine relying on all of us sheeple (insert evil laugh here) to keep them safe from disease. During a widespread outbreak, they decide that vaccination is the more prudent choice because the wall of protection we've built with our immunity clearly isn't as solid as it should be because too many people made that same selfish choice.

You can keep on trying to benefit from a system you're not willing to contribute to, but the day of reckoning eventually comes. It's here, now.

A lot of people went to get the MMR during the outbreak, because they were pressured by their children’s schools.

amother

Linen

Wed, May 15 2019, 12:36 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Do you:
Use shampoo and deoderant?
Inhale second hand smoke?
Live where there is pollution?
Eat food that may have preserves and chemicals and hormones?
Wash laundry with detergent?
Use cell phones?

In any case, whether we vaccinate or not, it would be in everyone’s best interest to avoid unnecessary chemicals, preservatives, and radiation.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, May 15 2019, 12:37 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Your point is well-taken as a response to the OP. You are saying that there are inconsistent pro-vaxxers just as there are inconsistent anti-vaxxers. Ok.

However, I am having a hard time understanding why "never consider questioning the doctor" is on the same list as going to work with fever, bringing sick kids around little babies and bringing newborns to weddings. Those three are inconsiderate and/or showing a lack of careful concern about avoiding spreading/contracting illnesses. There is nothing inconsiderate or irresponsible about trusting one's doctor and following his/her advice, nor is doing so a "poor choice" like exposing others to illness so you can go to work. Also, people who follow their doctor's advice do question and discuss their concerns, and a good doctor with listen and address these concerns in a compassionate and knowledgeable manner. But, when a person then follows the doctor's advice, how on earth is that inconsiderate or a poor decision?

southernbubby

Wed, May 15 2019, 8:12 am

I always question doctors, medical procedures, and pharmaceutical products, however, in some situations, we have no alternative but to trust the system.

Before the outbreak, I, like most people, never thought about measles or about which people around me were vaccinated. I would have considered myself pro-choice; that's if I even thought about it at all. When it came to health, weight and diets topped my list of concerns and the only infectious diseases that I really worried about was the flu and MRSA.

Now we have an outbreak, that luckily hasn't killed anyone, but has resulted in numerous hospitalizations and it may be years before we know if these infants will be able to father children or whether or not they will develop a chas v'sholem fatal encephalitis later in life I can not support free choice. It has certainly resulted in suffering, monetary loss, yeshiva closures and other anti-Semitic actions, if we want to view the shuttering of Torah institutions as something that the government wanted to do anyway and was looking for a reason.

So at this point, I would not be interested in going to Albany to lobby for choice. Those who shamelessly and knowingly exposed vulnerable people to a potentially dangerous illness prove that we can't trust the public to safeguard public health.