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Enough kids for you!
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amother
Wine


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 6:52 am
When I'm out with my entire caboodle, I sometimes feel defensive. I can see judgement in others' eyes.

And my kids are polite, obedient and neatly put together ( usually!). I cope well and feel fulfilled from caring for them.
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Israeli_C




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 6:53 am
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
On the flip side, my youngest is 3 and I've gotten, "it's time for another!"

My oldest is 3 and I've gotten "enough!! stop already!!" by a random lady on the street.

Proof you can never win...
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 7:03 am
Everybody projects their own issues onto other people. We can't help it. Our lives are the only lens we have, and it takes a concerted effort to work on seeing things through the eyes of someone else.

When someone says "You've had enough already", what they are saying is "I feel too overwhelmed just thinking about it, and it stresses me out to imagine being in your place."

When someone says "Isn't it time you try for another?", what they are saying is "I wish I could have more children, and somehow I will feel fulfilled when you have the child because I suggested it." OR, they are saying "Misery loves company. I can't handle my many children, and I want you to feel just as overwhelmed as I do."

So whenever someone says something clueless, remember that they are giving you a lot of information on their "personal lens", and that it has next to nothing to do with you. 99 times out of 100, we are just the mirror to the other person's issues.

It took me many, many years to figure that out, but once I realized that it was true I have become a much happier person. I feel very confident in my decisions, and don't let random, unsolicited opinions upset me.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 7:10 am
Israeli_C wrote:

What happened us?! Is this something new or am I late in the game?!


I don't know what / when happened or if ur late in the game.

I could say I only discovered this is "normal" when I joined ima.

So if ur late in the game, that makes 2 of us!! Hi

U can pm me to vent further. I'd warn u that ima just may not be the best place to get the sympathy u deserve for such obnoxious comments.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 7:52 am
Years ago there was an article by Judy Brown that changed my life. She has since gone otd I think, not sure since she’s not in the public eye, but afaik she was still Frum then.
Anyway she started off by describing being seven months along and being told there’s no heartbeat, and the relief she felt. Because she had three little kids at home and was exhausted. The article went on. It was really well written and shook me up and opened my eyes.
I was pregnant with my second then, with barely 17 months between both kids. I was resentful because I had only gotten a heter for 6 months.
Then I read the article and said ENOUGH. No more asking. No more pressure. Every child of mine will be wanted, longed for. And I’ve never looked back.
I owe Judy Brown my life. Literally.
So wherever I can and think it’s appropriate, usually online, I pass on the favor. If one person gets to turn their life around it’s worth it.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 7:59 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I think it's an Israeli thing. Or a Jewish thing. You know... we are all one family.... still completely inappropriate.


I never heard strange israeli say that. I ve heard in the embassy when I registered kids . Just chutspa like many israelis have and dont realize, they can still do tshuva,
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 8:47 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I think it's an Israeli thing. Or a Jewish thing. You know... we are all one family.... still completely inappropriate.

It's not an exclusively Israeli thing.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 8:52 am
Eh, people comment on everything. It has always been annoying and rude. I've gotten both ends. I have three close together. I heard lots of "pregnant again, so soon?" with my youngest. Now he's three, I'm on the iud, I doubt I'll be taking it out for at least another year, and now the same people are wondering nu, what's the holdup.

As for here, well, people come here asking for advice, so they should expect to get advice. And if the situation described is such that adding another child into the situation is clearly a bad idea, then yes, bc is likely to be among the suggestions (though I do find it a little grating how often people assume that they need to spread the message that it's more muttar than not. The taboo is considerably less than it used to be, it's been a very long time since I've actually encountered someone who thought it was assur in all but the most extreme circumstances, or someone who got a hard no from their rav when they really needed bc).
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:00 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I think it's an Israeli thing. Or a Jewish thing. You know... we are all one family.... still completely inappropriate.


I agree. I work in child services and recently met a woman (nonjewish) who is pregnant with her 8th kid. Her first 2 are in a foster family (she didn't want them), the next 3 are in a government run foster care and only the last 3 will be living with her.
Noone said anything or reacted negatively. I was the only one who wanted to say: please take birth control.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:05 am
Zehava wrote:
Years ago there was an article by Judy Brown that changed my life. She has since gone otd I think, not sure since she’s not in the public eye, but afaik she was still Frum then.
Anyway she started off by describing being seven months along and being told there’s no heartbeat, and the relief she felt. Because she had three little kids at home and was exhausted. The article went on. It was really well written and shook me up and opened my eyes.
I was pregnant with my second then, with barely 17 months between both kids. I was resentful because I had only gotten a heter for 6 months.
Then I read the article and said ENOUGH. No more asking. No more pressure. Every child of mine will be wanted, longed for. And I’ve never looked back.
I owe Judy Brown my life. Literally.
So wherever I can and think it’s appropriate, usually online, I pass on the favor. If one person gets to turn their life around it’s worth it.


I remember when my SIL was by me for Pesach and she had a miscarriage. I felt so bad for her. Then she told me she was glad, because she was totally not ready for another one yet. Her baby was less than a year old. We had a long talk about things....

After that, they spoke to a Rav about a heter. And took their time till they were ready for their second child.

I think everyone should make choices that work for them. I also feel it's important for people to know they have options. If you want a bunch of kids and you're okay caring for them (and you're honestly not having another baby just because it makes you feel good and saintly and you think it's fine for your seven-year-old to do the raising) that's wonderful, I'm so happy for you (truly. I'm not being sarcastic here. I think that's really ideal). But if you're really burying your resentment and trying to survive and thinking you're really not going to manage (but you'll dump it on your seven year old, she's so mature) then you have to consider your options. Because one day your seven year old is going to grow up and feel like she never had a childhood, and she will wonder why it is that she's not really coping with her children, because her youth is catching up to her...and that's unfair.

When you consider whether you can manage another child, please make sure it's just you and your husband that are part of the decision. Not your child and your unrealistic expectations of her.

Spoken from experience.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:13 am
Zehava wrote:
Years ago there was an article by Judy Brown that changed my life. She has since gone otd I think, not sure since she’s not in the public eye, but afaik she was still Frum then.
Anyway she started off by describing being seven months along and being told there’s no heartbeat, and the relief she felt. Because she had three little kids at home and was exhausted. The article went on. It was really well written and shook me up and opened my eyes.
I was pregnant with my second then, with barely 17 months between both kids. I was resentful because I had only gotten a heter for 6 months.
Then I read the article and said ENOUGH. No more asking. No more pressure. Every child of mine will be wanted, longed for. And I’ve never looked back.
I owe Judy Brown my life. Literally.
So wherever I can and think it’s appropriate, usually online, I pass on the favor. If one person gets to turn their life around it’s worth it.


Lol.
I know Judy and her family.
Her writings published on The Forward are fictional.
She only has two kids.
She doesn’t come from the narrow minded family you are imagining she originates from.
Her mother is a business woman, drives etc...
She is not OTD-she became MO.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:31 am
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
Lol.
I know Judy and her family.
Her writings published on The Forward are fictional.
She only has two kids.
She doesn’t come from the narrow minded family you are imagining she originates from.
Her mother is a business woman, drives etc...
She is not OTD-she became MO.

I remember her putting a disclaimer that this was based off of other people’s experiences. And so what if her mother drives?
It was still a great article, and still changed my life.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:41 am
Israeli_C wrote:
Since when has it become so socially acceptable to tell people that they've had enough kids or to go on BC? I brought my twins to the doctor recently and the secretary (who's actually a really lovely women and I've never had issues with her) said to me "what a lovely family! but that's enough. You don't have a job. Need to feed all those kids!" She's not aware that my husband not only works (shocker) but earns enough for a very comfortable lifestyle. It's far from being my first 'encounter' with these kinds of comments, and it shocks me each and every time. I see it being thrown around on threads on this board all the time and all I can think is "... seriously? And you are...??"

What happened us?! Is this something new or am I late in the game?!


I hate it. That‘s life. I found 4 kids to be a magic border after which everyone knows that you have had enough!

After a miscarriage one of the doctors commiserated with me until she found out that I already have a bunch of kids. As if it does not matter to me at all..
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:47 am
imaima wrote:
I hate it. That‘s life. I found 4 kids to be a magic border after which everyone knows that you have had enough!

After a miscarriage one of the doctors commiserated with me until she found out that I already have a bunch of kids. As if it does not matter to me at all..


Yalla. I remember one of our Russian neighbors saying to my mother exasperatedly "another one???!!!" when she gained a little weight. We were a three kid family.

Rudeness knows no national borders.
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amother
Powderblue


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:49 am
It isn't only strangers. A close relative, upon learning that I was expecting number 5 told me that now he knows what to get us for a baby present - a box of condoms! Exploding anger

A close friend of mine was offered a TV by her parent because "you are obviously bored at night" shock At wits end
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:52 am
amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:
I agree. I work in child services and recently met a woman (nonjewish) who is pregnant with her 8th kid. Her first 2 are in a foster family (she didn't want them), the next 3 are in a government run foster care and only the last 3 will be living with her.
Noone said anything or reacted negatively. I was the only one who wanted to say: please take birth control.

Probably other people wanted to say it, too, it's just that that's the kind of thing you're really not allowed to say as a social worker (or whatever other kind of caring-profession-person in child services). Silence doesn't always mean agreement.

I do find that Israelis are more likely to actually say it, just like Israelis are more likely to actually say most things they are thinking. And yet, the people I know who are most against large families are all white upper-middle-class Americans - it's just that most of them will keep their "you are a selfish, horrible person destroying the world with all of your babies" to themselves unless you ask.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:53 am
People are well meaning and think they know best. Glad they have the confidence to speak their minds. Does not make it normal.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 9:59 am
ectomorph wrote:
See my dumping thread, where I was told to go on bc by at least one person, despite my positive tone in the thread...


I didn't read the whole thread ( I read beginning) and now that I know what to expect there I thi k I'd rather stay away.

I can say u do give off healthy positive attitude.

If anyone responded that u should go on bc because ur toddler made a mess- I dont know if I can say the same about them.

I will definitely keep this all in mind b4 ever posting anything on ima.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 10:00 am
SuperWify wrote:
I get that all.the.time.

Just this shabbos my kid pointed to a doll and said baby. A sweet polite girl tells me, “when your child says that it means it’s time for the next one.”

Ok thanks honey.

Why is anyone’s family planning anyone else’s business is beyond me Scratching Head

Totally understand you. I guess that a few crude 'in your face' ready-to-serve answers sound tempting (at least to me)
If you live in a community where the cultural social norm and ideal is to have as large families as just possible (preferably non-stop back-to-back pregnancies from the age of 18), the person not following the norm will kind of stand out.
Also, it's about status. "I have 6 kids only (for the time being) but you should see my sister, she is on her 13th pregnancy and now expecting twins! Bravo!!"
So many times I have been to a simcha and one of the first questions (for those who don't know me) is: 1. What is my family name and connection to the baalei simcha and trying to find out if they know my parents or relatives (Mishpochologia)
2. How many kids I have.
Each time they are kind of "disappointed" and confused. They for sure will not be able to locate any living family member of mine and on top of that, I have zero kids! LOL
By the way, I guess men don't get interrogated or questioned about number of kids and spacing and hints.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Mon, May 20 2019, 10:08 am
Rappel wrote:
Yalla. I remember one of our Russian neighbors saying to my mother exasperatedly "another one???!!!" when she gained a little weight. We were a three kid family.

Rudeness knows no national borders.

Agree. FYI, in USSR I think the norm was one or max 2.
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