G.O. Head and "Jobs" in Lakewood high-schools - Favoritism??

amother

Lime

Wed, May 22 2019, 10:00 pm

EMEN wrote:

I don't think any of this is really about the 'jobs'. It's about the recognition that everybody is craving in high school. If the students felt respected and recognized in other ways by their teachers then they wouldn't have so many complaints about jobs.
I have friends that were GO and still felt like they weren't recognized. I have friends that were main part in play and felt unrecognized. They didn't feel like the teachers KNEW who they were.

You are probably correct. But is there a solution to that when there are 10/15 teachers teaching a grade of 150+? It’s one teacher teaching five classes the same subject - how is she supposed to get to “know” girls individually?

DVOM

Thu, May 23 2019, 7:04 am

This was an eye-opening thread for me to read. In my (large Brooklyn) hs, I was vice president of GO and the next year head of our school weekend. I loved being out of class for any reason and volunteered for anything I could throughout HS. I did well academically, but not great. Steady mid 80s, except in math, where I was lucky to just pass. No one in the administration seemed to care. Nor did my parents. As you can imagine, I loved HS. Has this set me up for more success and happiness in life? I don't know. I am very happy in my job, in my marriage. But was it my HS experience that did it?

I have a dear friend who ran in different circles in HS. She'd hated high school. She felt like she and her crowd were overlooked and not given any recognition or arena for their talents. It's interesting to note that this woman and her group of 3 friends are now all highly successful proffessionals. One is in a top managerial position at a huge firm. Another travels regularly to Africa and South America for the non-profit she works for. These women are powerful, wealthy, influential. Each are married to highly successful men. But in HS they were nerdy, brainy, and ignored. Did this set them up for less success and happiness in life? On the outside, it would seem not.

And what about boys? Mine are young, but I'm curious about how boy's talents and creativity are nurtured (or not nurtured) in HS and beyond. It seems to be the athletic skills and academic prowess are highlighted, but what about everything else? There must be just as many talented boys as there are girls. Is there an arena for artistic talents (musical, fine arts, dance, managment, writing) for boys? In Lakewood highschools, it would seem there isn't. Do they all suffer from the lack of recognition for thier talents that girls who are overlooked in HS do?

amother

Papaya

Thu, May 23 2019, 8:32 am

I agree that this is not particularly about jobs. My highschool in Lakewood was actually pretty decent with jobs. Yes popular girls were g.o. and chesed heads, but the yearbook editors were the best writers, even if quiet and nerdy, and other committees were put together with a mix of girls with different talents and everyone got multiple jobs. (The school was smaller then.) Our school took play very seriously, so the dance head was the best dancer and choir the most musical etc.
But we also felt this attitude. And I think this is because the teachers went straight from highschool to seminary, back to highschool. They never experienced the real world. They are still in highschool! They feel good when a popular or cool kid gives them attention. Really! I've totally noticed teachers feeling good and even subtly showing off their relationships with the popular kids, whether they were the 'good' popular kids or the ones that didn't toe the line. Makes no difference. They are cool. But quiet nerdy kids were totally ignored and not appreciate at all. I bet if they were challenged to predict which kids will be successful, they would have it all backwards. I think it should be mandatory that all highschool teachers spend a few years in a normal work environment so they can appreciate people's different qualities.
Obviously there were a few exceptions, but these were mostly older English teachers with lots of life experience and they were just there for their jobs, didn't really mentor girls or anything. There was one exception I can think of, and when I mentioned it to other classmates of mine, they agreed. I think she was also an overlooked girl, so she was able to appreciate us. An example was that in 12th grade, she asked me to befriend a troubled girl in a younger grade. Normally, in these situations a popular girl was usually asked. But firstly, this girl was no so cool, so the other teachers kind of looked over her issues in the first place, and she recognized that this girl had an attitude that from girls were shallow and unintelligent and she recognized she needed a girl to match her needs. I've heard recently that she became a mechaneches in the school and that is heartening.

amother

Yellow

Thu, May 23 2019, 9:53 am

abound wrote:

why would a school think that a quiet shy girl who never used her talents (volunteer etc) would be capable of running a shabbos or G.O.
I am asking sincerely. They need the G.O. to work out or the school/grade shabbos. How are they supposed to realize that the quiet girl in the back or the one who never uses her talents in anyway has the talents and the strength to do it? I understand that every girl should be given something to do but I am talking abt the girls who want GO or school shabbos?
Do you have any ideas?

(P.S. I do not have girls in HS and I am not part of any school.....just wondering)

Never mind the why. How would the school know that she's even interested in the job?

This issue needs input from both parties. The schools definitely do need to handle this appropriately and not consistently give the jobs to the same girls. But with the size of many of the high schools today's days, it's almost impossible for the school to have insight about every single girl.

The girls need to be encouraged to promote themselves, to speak their minds and to reach out to the teachers and mentors. They need to be taught to put themselves out there so the teachers and others can become aware of their desires and abilities. It's a skill they need for life too, so it can only benefit them.

I know the girls are young and its not easy to do, so imo it would be a great idea if the school somehow works with this concept. They can have guidance counselors or mentors who meet and work with the girls. It can help out with the school gaining keen insight to all individuals and it can encourage the girls to chase after their dreams and desires.

tigerwife

Thu, May 23 2019, 11:06 am

Interesting thread. I went to a large high school and never expected to be nominated for GO or get a respectable “head” job. I was not a star student (although I did well) and maybe did not look the part because of all the accessories I added trying to add pizzazz to my dull uniform Very Happy

. That isn’t to say I didn’t secretly wish to be “chosen”, but there were so many perfect Bais Yaakov girls with amazing grades I knew I didn’t have a chance. The staff would never pick me over so many other role model choices.

That said, I thrived on extra curricular. If I wasn’t head of choir, I volunteered to join. I stayed late after school helping heads decorate. I got signed out of class as often as I could. Eventually, other girls in my grade knew they could count on me to make things work. So if the machaneches wouldn’t choose me to head the shabbaton, the shabbaton head would call me either way to get involved. I never did get any position of “honor”, but I loved high school anyway. Now if only there was some kind of extra curricular I could get involved with in real life! Wink

amother

Thu, May 23 2019, 11:17 am

Hi everyone, I started this thread and I want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences. These kinds of conversations are so important, and when we see we are all in the same boat, we can feel strong enough to create change.

I want to share some good news. The GO heads were announced in my daughter's highschool, and she said that the two girls are confident enough to lead, but definitely not the cool, charismatic stereotype that we all fear will win the popularity contest year after year. She said they are nice, non judgmental, down to earth girls, and she is sincerely happy for them to lead, with no jealousy that she wasn't chosen. She still feels badly that she is too quiet to be chosen for a leadership role, but she is genuinely happy for her friends.

I am relieved and grateful that while the students voted, the school culture is good enough to support the election of deserving, not just "cool," girls. Iy"H by all our daughters!!

Simple1

Thu, May 23 2019, 11:25 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

My girls have been given out questioneere sheets to write their job preferences.

amother

Thu, May 23 2019, 12:11 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

EXCELLENT post, so true about teachers needing to work on themselves not to need the cool kids' approval. It is a very real phenomenon. I was a teacher myself, and teachers are just human beings.

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 23 2019, 2:43 pm

Chiming in here, just read thru most of these posts. Yes, I couldn't agree more than h.s. is totally unfair and recycles the same few girls for literally EVERYTHING! From G.O. to play to BY convention reps etc, these girls were obviously favored by the hanhala and chosen for everything. Yes, it wasn't fair. However, more than 20 years later, obviously those girls aren't any more successful in life than anyone else and some of us who were extremely overlooked and even nebs, are actually doing quite well for ourselves BH.
This is why it's so important for a girl to feel special at home. Obviously the school can't and won't give every girl what they deserve and make every girl shine. It's either impossible or there are too many factors involved like those mentioned above. This is why it's so important for the girls HOME to be the main source of satisfaction, recognition, warmth and love so that she doesn't rely on her SCHOOL to do this for her.
I hope for my daughters to be able to give this to them so they don't need to look on the outside and rely on others for self esteem and worth.

Chayalle

Thu, May 23 2019, 2:47 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

THIS! A mother after my own heart. Give your kids what they need and don't blame everyone else for not doing it!

amother

Thu, May 23 2019, 3:12 pm

Chayalle wrote:

THIS! A mother after my own heart. Give your kids what they need and don't blame everyone else for not doing it!

Ok, ok, hold on please.

Let me describe my daughter: she is the kindest, most loyal, trustworthy, responsible, mature, empathetic, refined, and self aware girl you will ever meet. She is also funny (with close friends and family) and extremely artistic. She is not confident or charismatic. She can be anxious and in-held. She is intelligent, and specifically gifted in limudei kodesh and languages, but she is not a genius, and has to study very hard for her As. In other words, a lovely human being who does not shine or sparkle in the crowds of louder, strong willed girls.

Now, at home she is loved and shines in many ways, BUT SHE HAS SPENT THE MAJORITY OF HER TIME IN SCHOOL THE MAJORITY OF HER LIFE. If school included awards for art, writing, kindness, friendship, and deep understanding and self development, then she would be the star. She should have more classes and time to develop her strengths. But school doesn't provide that, and school is where she spends her days. So she has spent the majority of her time in a culture that says "you are such a good girl, but good girls are just not enough."

So yes, schools do need to work on reaching the quieter children who spend most of their waking hours there.

amother

Thu, May 23 2019, 3:23 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

That's great that you value her and I'm sure she recognizes it. Are you upset about the school situation or is she also? Yes, it's upsetting and it's real. But since the school system won't change any time in the near future, the best we can do is build up our children at home.

Yes, she is upset about the situation. She has many talents and would like to grow and develop and produce the highest expression of herself, just like any human being. And it is distressing to be in a culture that doesn't truly value you. And again, that's where she spends most of her time. She has friends and enjoys learning, but she would like to be given opportunities to develop her strengths, and she is overlooked.

I think this entire thread describes how my daughter feels. Change is needed.

amother

Thu, May 23 2019, 3:41 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

It's a sad frustrating situation but really not going to change. Best you can do is give her outlets to shine outside school. Or have her push herself into something in school without being nominated. Such is life.

Of course things can change. All over this thread schools have been described where every interested girl is given a chance to shine. All schools can change their model. It has been done. There's always hope for the future, that's why these conversations are important.

sneakermom

Thu, May 23 2019, 5:38 pm

No extreme is good.

A school that is “elitist” and caters the whole program to the same ten girls is dysfunctional. Anyone outside of the elite group suffers their rejection in silence. They get no respect and acknowledgment.

But to “expect” the school to cater to your child’s every need for affirmation is also dysfunctional!

My twelve year old is very outgoing and full of energy and ideas. She was chalishing to be chosen for G.O. for eight grade.

But she attends a very big school and the likelihood was slim. And we discussed all that. That she would be great as G.O. but being that there were so many candidates it’s almost impossible.

And as we thought she didn’t get it. And she was fine! She knows her self worth and she’s not spoiled enough to think she will always get what she feels she “deserves”.