Shtisel's "Ruchami" will play Devorah Feldman in Unorthodox

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amother

Aubergine

Mon, May 27 2019, 4:35 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Traditionally, Ba'al Tshuva referred to people who grew up religious, sinned and repented. So it would be OTD people who became religious again who would be called Baal Teshuva. But that has been redefined to mean people who grew up non-religious and became religious are now called Bal Teshuva. So what do you call someone today who grew up religious, went OTD, then became religious again if the term has been redefined to mean something else entirely?

And only men are allowed to be part of the minyan, and they do not have to be orthodox or religious to be included as part of the minyan. So how is that considered community for women who are not included in minyan and/or for men who are not religious but still counted as part of minyan?

Sure. I'd accept either usage of Ba'al Teshuva. I'll let Hashem decide if that person merits all that is coming to a BT.

Orthodoxy would have a really difficult time with a group of women who have cut themselves off from the men.

My point of bringing up the minyan was to say that if your frame of reference is Orthodox Judaism they you are predisposed to seeing people as members of religious group communities. You really can't be, or shouldn't be a Frum Yid on an island. We're not set up for that. We are a nation.... even in small pockets.

It seems like from this point of reference its hard to picture that "not frum" does not equal member of "not frum" community. Like there are two tents or something.

sequoia

Mon, May 27 2019, 5:20 pm

Yanky Rosen is filling out a form.
“First name? I know, I’ll put William! Last name? I know, I’ll put Smith! Religion? I know, I’ll put g0у!”

Dina2018

Mon, May 27 2019, 6:36 pm

[quote="amother [ Tan ]"]So what do you call someone today who grew up religious, went OTD, then became religious again?[/

they are called datlashlash (dati lesheavar lesheavar) or so they say in „Srugim“ )

crust

Mon, May 27 2019, 9:28 pm

pause wrote:

Only Reb Aron got a title of Rav, and poor Reb Zalman Leib doesn't even get a Reb before his name? Wink

👍🏿

Last edited by crust on Tue, May 28 2019, 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total

marina

Mon, May 27 2019, 9:42 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

FYI, much of the OTD world has also rejected Deborah Feldman's book because of lies and inaccuracies.

This is correct.

SacN

Tue, May 28 2019, 2:13 am

Quote:

they are called datlashlash (dati lesheavar lesheavar) or so they say in „Srugim“ )

No, I'm pretty sure דתלש is the same as off the Derech. If you come back, you are then a baal teshuva (my husband likes to call them FFBWSL, frum from birth with some lapses).

I'm a baales teshuva of over 10 years. Totally integrated--no one knows unless I tell them. But I know. My experiences make me who I am. Why would I remove the 'label'? Isn't otd the same? I'm formerly non-religious, they're formerly religious?

imasoftov

Tue, May 28 2019, 7:54 am

SacN wrote:

Dina2018 wrote:

they are called datlashlash (dati lesheavar lesheavar) or so they say in „Srugim“ )

No, I'm pretty sure דתלש is the same as off the Derech.

that's also how I hear it used IRL.

pause

Tue, May 28 2019, 7:49 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Because that was not the case and I am not being subjective or making assumptions here. They trashed her before her book even came out so there is no way for two Non-satmar people who never read her book to even know what she had written and trash her for objective reasons. I am not going to go into further details about it and/or how I know what really happened and why.

Aren't you the amother who said that Deen and Vincent trashed her for their own personal gains? If they did so before her book even came out then what was the basis, real or so-called, for their condemnations of her?

amother

Red

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 3:33 pm

I haven't read DF's book but I get the gist of it. OK so she left the chassidish world and had some serious hardships growing up........So many people go through all kinds of struggles, etc. Jewish or non Jewish......
She left her original community, just like many people make some kind of major transition in their lives one way or another.
Others become frum, many leave the frum world if we are speaking only about he Jewish world. But there are so many interesting stories of all kinds.

There are so many paths we have all been on. I just don't understand the hype around her book and now there will be a movie!! It's so sensationalist......
Everyone has a story to tell, but we aren't all in the limelight.

As for Shira Haas taking on the role...... She's a great actress and that's her job. Why would she turn it down?

amother

Azure

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 6:43 pm

When is it coming out?

amother

Firebrick

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 6:53 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

The hype around her book is that she calls it a memoir when it’s so full of lies. Yes, she didn’t have the easiest childhood, but the truth wouldn’t have been as sensational nor would it have made such headlines.

Mevater

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:53 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

+1000000000000000000000000

It was years ago when I saw it, so I cant recall the name, but there was, and might still be some website that lists many lies in the book, one by one, with proofs, including childhood photos of her.

amother

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:57 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

The book was a memoir. Feldmans feelings, beliefs and memiroes are he own and it is unfair to call them inaccuracies and exaggerations. The book is HER reality.

Granted, and I agree its not equivalent, but some people's reality is denying the Holocaust happened.

amother

Sienna

Fri, Jul 26 2019, 1:49 am

SacN wrote:

Quote:

they are called datlashlash (dati lesheavar lesheavar) or so they say in „Srugim“ )

No, I'm pretty sure דתלש is the same as off the Derech. If you come back, you are then a baal teshuva

Yes, though דתל'ש is a neutral term that many people use to describe themselves.
OTD is a loaded, judgemental term, and people don't usually self-identify as such.

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Jul 26 2019, 2:07 am

Mevater wrote:

Nonjewish people and Jewish people with no affiliation love her book.
I wouldn't know about her if my parents didn't call me all excited , telling me how much they love the book.
My nonjewish friends and colleagues also really like it and think they got a glimpse at Judaism. Because now they believe that's what Judaism is.
That's why I'm really upset at Deborah Feldmann.. she lives in Germany.. like me, she should know that lots of Jews who live here have no idea about Judaism and nonjews for sure not. They believe everything she says in a heartbeat.

amother

Olive

Fri, Jul 26 2019, 3:08 am

Like "One Of Us" and "Disobedience", this book and the coming film adaptation will not represent us. Is that a shock to anyone?

penguin

Fri, Jul 26 2019, 10:26 am

Quote:

they are called datlashlash (dati lesheavar lesheavar) or so they say in „Srugim“ )
No, I'm pretty sure דתלש is the same as off the Derech

דתלש is dati lshe'avar - formerly frum

דתלשלש is dati l'she'avar l'sheavar - formerly formerly frum or, went off and came back

You're welcome.

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Jul 26 2019, 10:27 am

Is Shulem Dean's book clean? I'm curious to read it, but not if it details his exploits...

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 7:08 pm

Deborah Feldman came from a dysfunctional family was not able to lead a normal healthy life and goes out there seeking attention- she was on the View with Barbara Walters being cheered by the audience making fun of yiddishkeit and its customs halacha etc. Of course the outside world enjoys reading and seeing a movie that's anti frum - she's probably making a mint out of it that's all she cares about. As a fellow yid my heart goes out to her and her child

amother

Copper

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 7:24 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Is Shulem Dean's book clean? I'm curious to read it, but not if it details his exploits...

I'm trying to remember...it's well-written, but I did feel that there was some invasion of his wife's privacy in detailing their marriage.

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