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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Summer vacation rant
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teachkids




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 5:13 am
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
I'm sorry, but that's not an excuse. Either don't take the job, or manage both. Most schools I know pay teachers full 10 months or annual salary.
I have a 9-5 day job + my own business I work weekends and evenings. I stay true to my employer and my clients and only make commitments I can keep. And when I commit, even if things end up being tough (like erev Pesach, etc.)I make sure to follow through no matter what without taking off from my day job. If you take on a summer job that's no excuse to cut school short.


If you don't want teachers running your camps, you will either not have camp or the price will go up x5. No one is going to quit their teaching job to run the 2 months of camp.
It's not necessarily that schools end earlier and start later than they used to (we end the same time as when I was a kid, and start 2 days earlier), it's that camp can't start for a week and a half after that so that preparations can be finished and needs to end at least 2 weeks before school starts so that the staff can prepare for that.
I would guess that if you have the funds to pay some adults a decent 12 month salary and find a suitable location that's not a school, they would be willing to quit their teaching jobs and run a camp from the day after schools over until the day before school starts. You can even make it part of their contract to run camp on all those no school days and vacations during the year if you want!
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 6:27 am
Schools are required to have a certain amount of school days a year , typically around 180 but it varies by the state . Schools are not babysitting services , their job is to give an education, once the curriculum / days of school have been completed that's the job for the year .
That being said, I do find it interesting that whole most sleep away camps / camps in the country run for 8 weeks , many have started running for 6. It's a bigger service to run for the whole summer and would make a lot of people happier.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 8:31 am
If you don't want teachers running your camps, you will either not have camp or the price will go up x5. No one is going to quit their teaching job to run the 2 months of camp.
It's not necessarily that schools end earlier and start later than they used to (we end the same time as when I was a kid, and start 2 days earlier), it's that camp can't start for a week and a half after that so that preparations can be finished and needs to end at least 2 weeks before school starts so that the staff can prepare for that.
I would guess that if you have the funds to pay some adults a decent 12 month salary and find a suitable location that's not a school, they would be willing to quit their teaching jobs and run a camp from the day after schools over until the day before school starts. You can even make it part of their contract to run camp on all those no school days and vacations during the year if you want![quote]

This. It’s not about keeping commitments, it’s about logistics. Many camps are run in schools. How is it possible to set up for camp when there are students there? Many jobs give time to prepare for projects, presentations, etc. Why is this any different?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 8:52 am
I’d love to see more schools move to a 12 month model, with time off every xxx amount of weeks or months. This works well in other countries, but for some reason I don’t see it going over well in American, especially in the Jewish world. It’s a great model, but I think people will be very resistant.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 8:58 am
Seems I was wrong. Some schools in America HAVE moved to a 12 month model

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news.....ched/
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 9:07 am
Most special education schools run on an extended school year and the teachers manage. Also, the camps here start the week after school ends so that’s obviously possible too.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 9:11 am
amother [ Salmon ] wrote:
Most special education schools run on an extended school year and the teachers manage. Also, the camps here start the week after school ends so that’s obviously possible too.

Not my sons school. They start after Labor Day, but they end the same time as the other Jewish schools.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 9:18 am
When PP said they need time to prepare between camp and school I think they meant the building maintenance crew.

The directors and head counselors have all been preparing and booking things since the winter.

But transitioning the school building from a place of learning to a place of fun takes time.

For example:

Removing desks from classrooms and placing in storage

Setting up pools or sprinklers

Setting up the daycamp specialty rooms

Last I checked the maintenance people are humans not machines. Transition takes time.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 9:22 am
I would like to ad that the schools I have worked in take every vacation time to do maintenance on the building that is not so easy to do when the kids are there.

Examples:

Painting
Major plumbing or electrical work
Polishing floors

Don't we want our children's school to be clean and well maintained? I don't want to send my kids to a dump!
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:10 am
notshanarishona wrote:
Schools are required to have a certain amount of school days a year , typically around 180 but it varies by the state . Schools are not babysitting services , their job is to give an education, once the curriculum / days of school have been completed that's the job for the year .
That being said, I do find it interesting that whole most sleep away camps / camps in the country run for 8 weeks , many have started running for 6. It's a bigger service to run for the whole summer and would make a lot of people happier.


Lol. Ask some schools for a breakdown of those 180 days- they count fridays as full days, and. The school my girls go to has some classes in on sundays some on Fridays- they count both on their calandra!
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amother
Azure


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:44 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
The frum schools in our community end on June 13 and the local day camps don't start until June 24. There's a longer gap in August, between the end of camp and the start of school. There are backyard camps during the gap times, but the hours are way too short for two full time working parents.

I personally wouldn't care if the gaps were covered by school or camp, either one would be fine and I'd happily pay extra. As it is, I might send my kids to a secular day camp in August that will be open during the entire gap period and will have both before and aftercare.

Silver spring? Schedule sounds very familiar. Hi neighbor.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:57 am
How sad that you're all turning on your yeshivas and your camps instead of the real culprit - your obsessively capitalistic culture. I live in the southern hemisphere where our school year ends around the non Jewish holidays/new year, but businesses often close for a few weeks around that time so family can spend time together. I'm sorry that your culture doesn't value family time. I'm sorry that spending more time with your children isn't an option and that your work doesn't give you enough leave time to help minimise your costs.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 11:01 am
heidi wrote:
Time for the Israelis to chime in.
School ends June 30. Camp is from July 1-21. The end thank you very much.
Percentage wise I'm pretty sure more Israeli mothers work than American mother's.
After years of scrambling for coverage every summer finally a camp that goes till August 15 opened.
It's a fortune of money.
But at least it's something.
You Americans have no idea how good you have it.

Heidi; schools and yeshivas and shuls in America are bought and built with mesiros money and with fortunes of tuition.
Our parallel kehillah in Eretz Yisrael slapped the chavar hakneset on the back and received in
one year a school building, yeshiva building and shul building for the new needs of the young!
children in Israel can use public parks and transportation much more easily.
Here, we supervise our children 24/7.
I think each country has its own set of unique problems.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 11:03 am
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:
How sad that you're all turning on your yeshivas and your camps instead of the real culprit - your obsessively capitalistic culture. I live in the southern hemisphere where our school year ends around the non Jewish holidays/new year, but businesses often close for a few weeks around that time so family can spend time together. I'm sorry that your culture doesn't value family time. I'm sorry that spending more time with your children isn't an option and that your work doesn't give you enough leave time to help minimise your costs.

Please don't comment on a culture unless you live it.
in some ways, Frum Americans are the most moser nefesh for Jewish education, Mikvas,
building shuls and anything related to Yiddishkei, than any other country in the world!
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amother
Puce


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 11:05 am
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:
How sad that you're all turning on your yeshivas and your camps instead of the real culprit - your obsessively capitalistic culture. I live in the southern hemisphere where our school year ends around the non Jewish holidays/new year, but businesses often close for a few weeks around that time so family can spend time together. I'm sorry that your culture doesn't value family time. I'm sorry that spending more time with your children isn't an option and that your work doesn't give you enough leave time to help minimise your costs.


This. The push should be for more vacation time for all workers, not for shutting kids up in a classroom 24/7.
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sub




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 12:23 pm
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:
How sad that you're all turning on your yeshivas and your camps instead of the real culprit - your obsessively capitalistic culture. I live in the southern hemisphere where our school year ends around the non Jewish holidays/new year, but businesses often close for a few weeks around that time so family can spend time together. I'm sorry that your culture doesn't value family time. I'm sorry that spending more time with your children isn't an option and that your work doesn't give you enough leave time to help minimise your costs.

You are right that we don’t have enough paid vacation days. It also depends what ones employment is.
Please fill in some missing info:
How many months of schooling do you have
How many weeks of vacation do your children have (ours have 11 from june 19- sept 4) in the summer, and a long weekend(wed-mon) chanuka and same for mid winter which is just about 1 month after chanuka and 1-2weeks before pesach depending on age and school and all erev yom tovs.
And all fasts and isru chags and from taanis esther until after shushan purim and lag baomer and some teachers curriculum days
They are by no means nebach cases. They bh have plenty vacation days.
(To clarify this is NY NJ area)

What kind of job do you have
How much is your tuition
Do you get paid if you take chol hamoed off
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 12:34 pm
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
If you'll pay my tuition, I would love to quit my job and stay home with them.


You should’ve thought of that before you had them. Now that they’re here, learn to love being with them, and arranging for alternate plans when you’re unavailable so you don’t come off sounding like they’re a burden —which I’m sure they picked up on those feelings.
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amother
Green


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 12:34 pm
In Williamsburg (Brooklyn). One summer camp advertised 9 weeks (instead of the typical 8) of Daycamp last year as a way to get campers. It worked, they were overbooked even though they were slightly more expensive.

This year atleast 3 other camps adopted the idea. This is the way to make changes. All it takes for one Daycamp to make a smart business decision
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 12:39 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
You should’ve thought of that before you had them. Now that they’re here, learn to love being with them, and arranging for alternate plans when you’re unavailable so you don’t come off sounding like they’re a burden —which I’m sure they picked up on those feelings.


You've GOT to be kidding. Wow, you are absolutely the most judgmental person I've ever met, on imamother or IRL.

Do you seriously believe I have to have trust funds for each of my kids before conceiving them?

Again, the schools want me to pay tuition. They also want to be able to take off whenever they want. How do they expect me to pay tuition without working? Or Do you have a trust fund from Daddy?

Seriously, love posts like this. As clueless as is possible for a person to be.
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yerushamama




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 16 2019, 12:39 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
You should’ve thought of that before you had them. Now that they’re here, learn to love being with them, and arranging for alternate plans when you’re unavailable so you don’t come off sounding like they’re a burden —which I’m sure they picked up on those feelings.


No one here is referring to their children as a burden, and I am sure that most parents would love to take the time off to spend with their children! This post is basically lamenting the lack of options available to working parents when it comes to childcare between school and camp!
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