What would it take for you personally to say *that's IT* we'

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 4:30 am

People can have a million reasons for not making Aliyah. Sick parents, the fear of change, the love of comfort, the list is miles long. It's a very emotional decision to make.

I wish everyone would move here, but I do my best not to judge. I can't live in other people's heads and know what is holding them back, and even if I could, it wouldn't change anything. It's unique to every individual.

Grafix

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 4:38 am

I don't think that even after Moshiach everyone will come here, in the times of the Beis Hamikdosh not everyone did so why should Moshiach change things?
We are very grateful that we can call EY our home but its not for everyone.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 4:46 am

bluebaker wrote:

What exactly are you waiting for precisely. Saying Moshiach isn't enough. What is it ABOUT Moshiach that you'd not hesitate one second and plan moving back to Eretz Yisrael?

My family and I don’t speak fluent Hebrew and even with an Ulpan, I will never be as good as in my native tongue. Why should I move overseas and be a foreigner when I don’t need to. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree with the previous poster, even if Moshiach would come, it isn’t for everyone.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 8:47 am

Grafix wrote:

I'm not sure if it's going to work that way. I think everyone will want to come. The question is, will we all be deemed worthy? Or maybe, if we've lived through whatever will immediately precede Moshiach, then that means we will be worthy.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 8:52 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

We need to understand what Moshiach is about. There are stories about the poor unlettered farmers etc., punchlines like, let the g+yim go to Moshiach and leave us alone here, etc. You really don't want to be that farmer.

Now, you can say that in pre-Moshiach times, there are many legitimate factors permitting us not to move and more than that, precluding our moving now. Parnasa, children acculturating, family (e.g. having parents who would be left alone), other. But when Moshiach comes, "nas yagon va'anacha," all those stresses will be gone and we will move but happily and eagerly.

Imagine having a Beis Hamikdash back. I know, it's a bit inconceivable but read Rav Hirsch on just the korban mussaf to see what it means. Think of the simchas beis hashoeiva. Think of walking just 4 amos on the land that Moshe Rabbeinu didn't get to. Think of talking to Hashem as a local call.

I don't know where to begin....

etky

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 9:27 am

Grafix wrote:

Ok, so I don't get this.
What do the First and Second Temple periods have to do with Mashiach?
There was sooo much wrong with Am Yisrael in both eras but isn't the messianic period supposed to be one where those defects are erased and we reach a higher spiritual level centered around a Beit Hamikdash where Hashem's malchut is manifest to all - even the gentiles who will be making pilgrimages to Jerusalem too? Not to mention the ingathering of the exiles which is one of the quintessential markers of this period.
How would Am Yisrael staying in the Diaspora jibe with this picture?

amother

Rose

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:35 am

Ruchel wrote:

Moshiach being there, or somehow, my parents getting young, me getting a non migrainer, my husband catching a good parnassa, my children being on board.

So Moshiach without the other conditions wouldn't be enough?

Ruchel

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 12:34 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

So Moshiach without the other conditions wouldn't be enough?

Yah. Do you feed my family, visit my parents and buy me painkillers while you handle my kids during the long hot months?

etky

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:12 pm

I don't think I'm really understanding the whole thread.
Or maybe different posters took the question in disparate directions and answered totally different questions.
But bottom line, my feeling is that when Mashiach comes things are going to be so fundamentally different than they are now, that it will render so many of the factors that people have been citing irrelevant.
As far as theocracy goes - yeah, I don't know how that is going to play out in the modern world. But not worrying about it now. When it happens hopefully there will be a solution built in somehow.

amother

Cerulean

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:24 pm

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I am very happy that I live here! but I do think that Charedim should think twice, it is horrible how we are treated, I would compare it to the "blacks" in the 50's.

Why did you put blacks in quotation marks?

As for the OP, I admit that I have a pretty good life here in the US. If I could make aliyah without sacrificing my career, salary, or standard of living, I'd do it. I have no desire to start from the bottom, up again. DH and I do plan on buying a house in EY, so at the very least, we have a place to go if we do ever make the move.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:24 pm

OP, I dont understand your OP completely, but I will just say that not everyone has eretz Yisrael as a goal to want to live here. Personally, I am with you and I dont get it, but thats just the way it is. And many people say that only mashiach will bring them here.

Personally, I cant believe my luck that I am able to live in Israel during the time that I do. But Ive always learned that we dont wait for mashiach to make israel our home.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:25 pm

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I am very happy that I live here! but I do think that Charedim should think twice, it is horrible how we are treated, I would compare it to the "blacks" in the 50's.

Excuuuuse me? I know many many charedim that woujld never say anything like that. How could you compare the two?

amother

Natural

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:43 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Excuuuuse me? I know many many charedim that woujld never say anything like that. How could you compare the two?

\

Personally, I have had too many stories.
I have been heckled, I have been spoken down to.
This poor autistic teen who was beaten and arrested in a brutal manner by the police, it would NOT have happened if he did not look like a chassidic Jew.
I wish I did not feel this way, I was brought up to LOVE E"Y and I really do, I am happy I live here, but Jews in NY do not live with hatred towards daily in a way that I do. I am sorry that you do not like how I feel and how many of us do, I am sorry we do not do things based on the way you live your life, but this is what we have to live with..............
In the US if a politician or a mayor would speak badly of a certain group of people they would be out of a job, There are politicians that stake their entire career by talking bad about me, making up stories about me and their entire agenda is........anti me! Cuz Yes I am a charedi jew. How should that make me feel when I open the news?

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:47 pm

marina wrote:

I understand the desire for a utopia but theocracy doesn’t seem like a good idea

That's because we never saw it done right.
We think that the dor midbar or those of the shoftim were horrendous because Tanach doesn't whitewash, so we see the flaws. But for large periods of time - including various generations under the melachim - it worked. Beautifully.