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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
What is right?
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:13 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
She's not looking to rebel at all. At least not against me, or even g-d/religion. I think she is really just drawn to those in our life (family members mostly) who wear pants and that overall lifestyle. She's not turning away from other aspects of religion and even points out that she knows girls who wear what they are "supposed to" yet are not keeping shabbos.

I feel that with a child who is rebellious, there is no real choice except to accept. I've been down that road. Which is why I don't know what to do with a non rebellious child, who WOULD probably listen to me (but obviously it would be resentfully).

It's confusing for a teen when they see people who "appear" less religious bc of how they're dressed but are good people, and those who dress more religiously are not keeping shabbos... Of course, ideally, she should be focusing on being in a good place externally and internally.
With a child who is a good kid and would listen, I would personally try to use my influence as a parent to help her stay in a good place, because I do think that sometimes they're simply not mature enough to understand the ramifications of their decisions. Of course, this needs to be done in a smart, loving way, but I think the anecdote you shared about a friend who took that approach proves that this can work well when a child is generally doing well.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:21 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
It's an interesting concept. I agree in theory. I wonder if I am capable of it though.

When I think about going along with her wishes, or the fact that this is what she wants, my eyes fill up with tears. It makes me feel sad, rejected, and like I failed. Not because of "pants". Because I tried to share a lifestyle that I thought was beautiful with my children and it's being turned down. I feel like Hashem is rejecting me too, as I strove to raise my children more observantly than I grew up.

It's like I can't play the middle ground. It's either I accept it, and own it (as in "yup, my dd wears pants and I'm ok with that"), or continue to say "no honey, that's not our lifestyle."


OP, trust me on this one, I get it.

But she's not rejecting your beliefs or your lifestyle. She's trying on a different style of dress.

Teens do that. She'll experiment with this, and with that. She may walk away from some things for a while. But if you leave that door open, if you accept her and love her, there's every probability that she'll come back to it. I see this all the time with my kids, and with my friends' kids.

Maybe in a year. Or two. Or ten. Maybe she'll say that pants aren't all they're cracked up to be, and go back to skirts. Or maybe she'll be an amazing, strong devoted MO Jew who wears pants.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:30 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I have a HS age dd, who is well behaved, well adjusted, but no longer wants to wear skirts. I mention these traits because often times a desire to dress differently can come with behavioral issues/struggles that the child is experiencing. I have experience with this as well.

I'm lost. She is very very clear about what she wants. If I support her, I feel like I can maintain our trusting relationship and not alienate her/"encourage" her to go behind my back.

On the other hand, I can imagine other moms simply saying "are you kidding me?? Our family doesn't do that" and the kid will comply because there is no discussion to be had (I realize that this can still go one of two ways: either till they comply until they are old enough to do what they want, or it works and they "grow out of it" and lose the desire.)

Dd does have many pants wearers in her life, but she has many skirt wearers too.... and I wear skirts and cover my hair, so I'm all honesty there is a big component of sadness and rejection of my values, what will others think. We are right wing mo if that clarifies a little.


My DD did this. At first I had a hard time with it but then I realized she had lots of other great traits e.g. the very positive Midda of not doing Lashon Hora. I realized in the scheme of things I would prefer a pants-wearing girl who doesn’t talk about other people to someone who looked the part on the outside but wasn’t behaving that way on the inside.

I made sure that she wears skirts where appropriate eg Shul or Shabbos lunch at a friend’s house and she still does that today.

OP, I think if you try to force your DD to wear skirts all the time, it will be unlikely to work. Do try to focus on her positive Middot. And please don’t worry what others will think. The good ones won’t care.
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dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:30 am
Maybe you can compromise like she can wear pants only at home but outside skirts. or to casual things like trips she can do pants but in shul as respect only skirts etc
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:31 am
does your friend have the same family situation as you? I'm an ffb. Only one aunt let her girls wear pants and honestly she just confused me because she herself only wore skirts, covered hair.... so the concept of this is the way our family believes you halachicly need to dress made sense. I think it would be different if my family were the odd ones out religiously.

I think there's also the issue of from a child's perspective I can see a child saying you chose this lifestyle, why can't I chose a different one, especially the one you left, just going back to my roots? On the other head you are better equipped to explain WHY you chose the lifestyle you did, to explain the reasoning behind it. Your child knows that you actively chose this lifestyle and aren't just trying to follow the crowd. My dh is a bt and my kids are still young but I do think about this.

hypocrisy is also huge. I got disillusioned with the more right wing at an older age since when I was younger I dealt more with the MO community I lived in so that was the hypocrisy I saw and boy was I unimpressed. My RW relatives seemed very genuine in their frumkeit so I wanted to emulate them. Unfortunately there's less then ideal behavior everywhere.
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:54 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
It's an interesting concept. I agree in theory. I wonder if I am capable of it though.

When I think about going along with her wishes, or the fact that this is what she wants, my eyes fill up with tears. It makes me feel sad, rejected, and like I failed. Not because of "pants". Because I tried to share a lifestyle that I thought was beautiful with my children and it's being turned down. I feel like Hashem is rejecting me too, as I strove to raise my children more observantly than I grew up.

It's like I can't play the middle ground. It's either I accept it, and own it (as in "yup, my dd wears pants and I'm ok with that"), or continue to say "no honey, that's not our lifestyle."


My eyes are filling up for you OP. This is so hard. Like Marina said, dd is soon out of your house and then you have only the strength of your relationship to influence her decisions. You're walking a tightrope trying not to condone what is unacceptable behavior but at the same time trying to stay close and make dd feel your love. I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea for dd to see you're hurting for her turning her life in this direction, but really I can't give you advice, only hugs. I hope you find someone smart and experienced to talk to who can help you navigate this.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:56 am
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
I'm sorry, but you cannot compare a girl wearing pants to a boy not wanting to wear white shirts and a hat...


Yeah, you can. He would be the only normal one where we live dressed like that and would acquire bum status. The only ones who switched to cool clothes are also busy with drugs and dropped out of HS.

I am not saying boys in white shirts and hats are not experimenting, but they aren't telegraphing that they are.

OP's has about half the ladies wearing pants. We have no one without both a white shirt and a hat. You need to look at community norms before you can state which is worse.
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