Do you think we’re not the first to....

Iymnok

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 11:31 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Stonehenge, the Great Pyramid of Giza, and the Easter Island heads are all at least as large. Some of the ancients knew how to move large stones.

Kedusha doesn't necessarily require supernatural events. Human beings can participate in the creation of holy places.

I think some people want to suggest that everything about the Mikdash was miraculous because it absolves us of the responsibility to act. We know quite a bit about the building of Bayis Sheni. It involved the technologies of the time, building permits, and the efforts of ordinary people. And who knows, Smile

the same may be true of the third Mikdash.

Dd asked why we can’t build the Beis Hamikdash. We told her that we need a building permit first and there are more obstacles than it was to build our home.

IrenaFr

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 11:39 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Kedusha doesn't necessarily require supernatural events. Human beings can participate in the creation of holy places.

I think some people want to suggest that everything about the Mikdash was miraculous because it absolves us of the responsibility to act. We know quite a bit about the building of Bayis Sheni. It involved the technologies of the time, building permits, and the efforts of ordinary people. And who knows, Smile

the same may be true of the third Mikdash.

While I agree that “Kedusha doesn't necessarily require supernatural events. ” , I researched and now think that this wall is not from the Bayis Sheni period but earlier .
And of course this wall can be used for the wall of the third Mikdash Smile

And yes, we don’t know for sure how the pyramids etc were build and it creates big problems with our official and widely accepted history of humankind Smile

amother

Ruby

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 12:38 pm

IrenaFr wrote:

And yes, we don’t know for sure how the pyramids etc were build and it creates big problems with our official and widely accepted history of humankind Smile

As I recall, there are stones that may go back to Bayis Rishon. So? We know that Shlomo Hamelech recruited labor to help in the building.

Why is it such a problem that we don't know how the pyramids were built? Our official history doesn't say that they were divinely created. Somehow, the ancient Egyptians figured out how to move large stones.

I think the Mikdash is amazing. That's not the same as saying that humans didn't build it.

IrenaFr

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 12:57 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

What I find hard to believe that Egyptians figured out how to build pyramids, in Peru - Machu Pickchu, in Levanon - big stones like in Bayis Rishon (and Shlomo Hamelech used builders from there) and then - everything was totally forgotten Smile

By everyone and everywhere. So I dont believe in the official World history after finding out about all those things (megaliths)

amother

Ruby

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:15 pm

IrenaFr wrote:

By everyone and everywhere. So I dont believe in the official World history after finding out about all those things (megaliths)

Why is it so hard to believe that a skill was forgotten? For over a thousand years, no one knew how to read hieroglyphics because people forgot that writing system.

Sometimes a skill falls into disuse because it's no longer necessary, or because one of the necessary tools is unavailable. Many of my old computer files are inaccessible because the computers that read them are no longer being made. Etc.

Sorry for digressing from the main point of this thread.

IrenaFr

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:24 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Why is it so hard to believe that a skill was forgotten? For over a thousand years, no one knew how to read hieroglyphics because people forgot that writing system.

Sorry for digressing from the main point of this thread.

Because it was so widespread , in different cultures and continents .
hieroglyphics where not so good as letters so people preferred new and more efficient technologies . Like in your example with computers
But to forget everywhere such a useful technology - why?

amother

Ruby

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 2:18 pm

IrenaFr wrote:

When you get better at making metal tools, as people did over time, you can make lots of tools and have lots of workers cut rocks into small pieces and move them more efficiently. There's no need to move giant boulders anymore, and so the technology for rock-moving falls into disuse. I don't think there's anything mysterious at work here.

IrenaFr

Tue, Jun 25 2019, 3:57 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

People continued to build with big rocks , put huge monuments and even now do it . Also it not only the size of rocks, it’s how they put those rocks really close together without anything in between. We can’t do it now Sad

In Machu Picchu and in the area so many mind blowing building techniques!

imasoftov

Wed, Jun 26 2019, 6:10 am

IrenaFr wrote:

It’s a pity that so many Jewish people ignore their own history and archeology . If you go to the “western wall tunnels” you will see really huge, gigantic stones that the wall is build of , nobody could destroy this wall and nobody even today can build this way . So for 200% mokom hamikdash couldn’t be in this place . And it makes everyone really wonder how they build the wall . For me the tour was one of the signs to discover Torah and Judaism.
About the tunnels :
“A tour of the Tunnels unveils hidden sections of the Western Wall. It moves through underground passages, mikves and ancient water trenches, streets from the Second Temple era, a quarry used to excavate stones for the Kotel and more. The Western Wall’s enormous courses of stone are revealed in full size and magnitude, telling us about the architecture and building practices of different historical eras. ”
When you see those magnificent stones you really understand that hamikdash was something not from this world and was build by miracles. Because now people with all the technology in the world can’t do it, it’s just impossible . I don’t know how people can remain atheists after this tour .

and later

IrenaFr wrote:

I researched and now think that this wall is not from the Bayis Sheni period but earlier.

According to this table, larger monoliths (a single block of stone) than those used in the Second Temple exist (and were moved, the article has another table of monoliths that weren't, some larger). As to your claim that "now people with all the technology in the world can't do it", that table says the Herodian stones weigh hundreds of tons and here is a modern crane that can lift 22,000. See here about how it is thought it was done 2000 years ago.

Here is an article about the largest stone in the Kotel tunnel, estimated weight 570 tons.

Also post your research. What evidence is there that the Kotel was there before Herod expanded the Temple Mount?

I don't understand where the concern that the kedusha extends past the walls comes from and never heard of it before this thread, but unless it's based on the possibility that the wall was moved, I don't even know how your post is relevant to that.

IrenaFr

Wed, Jun 26 2019, 10:13 am

imasoftov wrote:

When I was in the tunnels they said that the technology doesn’t exist anymore , it’s how they build it - the problem not only that they lifted this stone but also that they put it ON on another stones, high on the wall and it fit perfectly in the place .
Those kind of cranes that on your link don’t work with already build walls. This is the problem.
In Machupicchu there are other technologies that really can’t be reproduced.
I was researching on YouTube where they showed all the problems with existing theories “ how in the past they did it” .
Baalbek in Lebanon used same technology. And very old

imasoftov

Wed, Jun 26 2019, 10:53 am

IrenaFr wrote:

How do you get from "the technology doesn't exist anymore" to miraculous? And are you also imagining that there were miracles in Machu Picchu and Baalbek?

You said that you "researched and now think that this wall is not from the Bayis Sheni period but earlier". Now you mentioned videos that where people haven't manged to duplicate ancient building techniques today. Are those the same videos? If so, how does our inability to do it today lead you to think it happened not during Bayit Sheni but earlier? Or if those are different videos, what did they say?

You also did not answer my question about what this has to do with people who are concerned that the kedusha of Har Habayit extends beyond the walls.