Question for those who used to be secular

Forrealx

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 7:10 am

I never had this. Well I had this but I knew this guy for years then saw him on a street and one hour later I was in his house drinking a beer. And yeah that owuld not happen in the frum world. What would happen though is that if you are walking together with your spouse on a shabbos or yom tov and it is a nice weather and you say ''hi'' you will get invited and have dinner.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 7:32 am

I hope I'm not hijacking this by asking a related question. Do secular people really buy drinks for total strangers at bars to get their attention? The first time I saw that was on Schindlers List. I don't really watch movies but then I saw it on another one. Is that really normal in the secular world?

(If some strange man bought me an alcoholic drink I would be out the door in a hurry)

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 8:05 am

It's normal and friendly, not creepy. It's not like the frum world where everyone knows everyone. If the guy meets you in a random place and is interested in getting to know you, he has to chap arein and ask for a number or for a date, because otherwise you're going to disappear and he'll never see you again. Your friend shouldn't have been friendly if she didn't want him to think she was interested.

WhatFor

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 8:15 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Her being friendly is not a sign she's interested. It just gave the guy a opening because they were talking, she said no because she wasn't, end of story. In the secular world you can be friendly to people of the opposite gender without anything else implied.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 8:37 am

I didn't become frum until my mid 30's, and I'm told I'm very pretty.

Ooooh, the stories I could tell! embarrassed

Half the time, I was the one being flirty and giving out my phone number.

Oh, and yes, random guys will offer to buy you a drink at a bar. If you are nervous, order something non alcoholic. By all means, never let it leave your hands from the time the bartender gives it to you, to the time it's empty. Bartenders will give you bottled water with the seal still unbroken. They understand the risk of a woman being drugged, and are more than happy to help keep you safe.

If you are meeting up with someone new for the first time, let a friend know exactly who you are with, how to contact them, and when you are expected back. If your date is doing well and going later than you thought, make sure your date sees you calling your friend to check in. If he's a mentch, he'll understand.

I could go on...

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 10:13 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Exactly. Sort of odd that your friend was so scandalized. Just be flattered and move on.

amother

Wheat

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 10:16 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

My mom always told me from a young age: if you don't want to sleep with him, don't accept gifts I.e. drinks etc.
Yes it's done. Also vice versa , some women buy drinks for men. If you're not interested, buy your own, you don't want a man to feel like you owe him.

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 2:18 pm

This thread made me remember an incident from when I was 19.

I went to see a movie by myself while on vacation with my family in Florida - I needed a break from my fam Smile

This guy came over to me while I was leaving the movie and said that he found me really attractive, and asked if we could stay in touch. He looked to in his mid to upper twenties, and was very attractive.

We spoke for a few minutes. I was super shy and awkward because I wasn’t used to talking to guys - I hadn’t started dating yet. Also because I felt guilty for talking to him. At the end of our conversation, he asked for my number and said that we should keep in touch. He was sad that I was leaving Florida the next day - he said he’d have loved to go out with me.

I was not very religiously connected at the time, and so there was this intense struggle within me. I wanted to stay in touch with him. Heck, I wanted to go behind the building and lose my virginity to him. But at the same time, I knew I’d regret doing so, and thought he wouldn’t be interested in me if he realized that I’m a religious Jew.

I asked him for his number instead of giving him mine, then went back to our hotel room and freaked. I really, really wanted to be a secular person in that moment.

I never ended up reaching out to him, and feel bad to this day that I rejected him in such a cold way, being that he was so nice to me. I wish I’d been open about why we couldn’t have a relationship even though I found him to be so attractive.

Part of me wishes that I’d hooked up with him and maybe lived happily ever after without Judaism’s restrictions. I’m not happy in my current marriage.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 5:13 pm

sirel wrote:

Would it be appropriate to say "no thanks, I'm married"? (I have no idea what OP's friend's situation is, I'm just wondering)

No, this does NOT work! It never works. If a guy is intent on hitting on you, it will just encourage him.

Nothing is sweeter than forbidden fruit, and it's all about the challenge and the chase.

Just recently, I had to switch bank branches, because there was a frum guy who worked there who would go out of his way to "help" me, whether I needed it or not. Then he'd ask me out for coffee. I didn't have my get yet, so my hair was covered and I had my rings on. I told him I was not available, but every time he saw me he tried again.

I probably could have gotten him fired, but his English was not good, and my Hebrew is not good. The bank would probably just say it's a misunderstanding. B'H for online banking!

I seriously wanted to say "You're standing there, in a kippah and your tzitzit out, and you're acting this way to a customer? One who has already told you that she's not available? You should be ashamed of yourself!"

I was told by a secular guy, that men like to "play the averages". They figure if they hit on 100 women a week, at least 3 or 4 are going to say "yes", so it's a net gain of 3 or 4 dates. They don't concentrate on the rejections for more than a few seconds, and then they move on to the next target.

dancingqueen

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 8:11 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

That’s part of what #metoo is about. Letting a man buy you a drink (which btw is a common first date in non frum circles) does NOT obligate you to sleep with him.

Also I agree with imasinger, meeting at target is adorably quaint by today’s standards.

IrenaFr

Mon, Jul 15 2019, 9:14 pm

It’s normal for some people but I never did this . Not for me . I had to know the person before going out for some time , a few months at least Smile

My mom said that she also never understood this .
Once I started to talk to a guy that I took the same bus to the university every day but we talked only in the bus and I refused to give him my phone because I didn’t like him as a boy. So no stories to tell Smile