Syrian Edict on Gerim

turca

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 10:22 am

lavendar wrote:

I can understand why ppl are bothered by this edict. As a Syrian though I would like to clarify one thing. It is not that we don’t consider gerim to be Jewish or accept them as Jews. We do ..... the edict is to prevent community members from marrying converts. Some have married converts and moved to other communities. But the nature of the community is that most ppl want to stay. Many Syrians live a Hollywood lifestyle if not for this we would have many celebrities and super models as mothers in our community. Many community members who would potentially be converting woman are not even shomer Shabbat not sure how kosher of Conversion that would be. This was to prevent bogus conversions solely for the sake of young men being able to date and marry whoever they want. It may not be a politically correct edict but it definitely worked. For a community that has many modern families who’s children mingle with non jews to have a less then 1% intermarriage rate is pretty impressive. It is the same way in Mexico, Panama Argentina . Which also have a big sy community. All sy community’s around the world mimic each other with its strengths and challenges.
I actually know young woman who converted she was drawn to our community she prayed in sy shuls and was very welcomed. She knew she could not marry within our world but said when I meet someone I’ll go somewhere else. ( yes I feel bad but she was okay with it and as a single woman she was very accepted)
I know another ger who a sy rabbi helped with his conversation but advised him to move out of town where his future children can have a better life. The man did and he is still close with the sy rabbi till today.
I know another boy adopted my ashkenaz parents in the neighborhood his birth parents were not Jewish. Somehow someway he became friends with sy kids. He’s completely accepted and even married an sy girl.
My point is to say we don’t accept converts as Jews is really stretching it. It was meant to prevent our youth from thinking they can marry out and simply convert whoever they fall in love with. Of course there will be times were it seems unfair that’s forsure . But over all it has saved us.

Don’t waste your time. They simply don’t understand... its a bunch of women babbling online...most of them never stepped a foot in our community.
Yet, I still have to see a typical Lakewood learning boy marry a convert... or a satmar boy from a good family... they wouldn’t even marry a BT!

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 11:52 am

lavendar wrote:

Insincere conversions are a real issue in the entire Jewish world. Would I want my kid marrying the child of a woman who converted, got married and wasn't even frum for one day? No, because I would have serious doubts on the validity of that conversion. But if a woman converts, marries and is a sincere frum person, I wouldn't have an issue with my kids marrying her kids.

From what I understand, reputable Batei din will not accept a candidate for conversion if he or she is planning to marry a Jew, and that Jew is not frum. Both of them have to become frum. So the conversions you describe in the SY community would not be valid. But, to extropolate from that that my kids, whose grandmother underwent a sincere conversion and has more yiras shamayim then most people I know, should not be allowed to marry a syrian Jew without that person being excommunicated from his family and community, yes that is wrong and does NOTHING to prevent intermarriage. It just makes an otherwise wonderful community look like racist and ignorant bigots to be honest.

Mama Bear

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 1:34 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

Not so. in the Syrian community many, many families are very nominally religious and very modern. If not for this edict there would be hundreds of insincere pseudo conversions, and there would be very little continuity of community. The fact that they mostly marry among themselves ends up strengthening their yiddishkeit.

turca

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 1:59 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

The Syrian/ Sephardic mentality about “being religious” is completely different than the Ashkenazi mentality. To start, we don’t put everybody into labeled boxes. But u did get the point: because we are together ( regardless of level of observance!), we are thriving.

amother

Plum

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 2:04 pm

People here are saying the edict works because they are not counting everyone that has to leave the community. So these SYs that left the community are not counted, to keep this artificial "no assimilation" score (and no, marrying a ger is not assimilating).

It's amazing, a ger to convert with a reputable Beit Din has to prove him/herself a million times, studies, keeps mitzvot, but these are "dangerous" for the community.

It's just so sad that there are people who try to self justify their real prejudices behind a halachically bogus edict.

Sad to see so many people saying they are trying to "do the right thing" by OPENLY modifying halacha.

The chief rabbis of Israel accept gerim, it's written in the Torah to love the convert, Ruth was a convert, David HaMelech descended from a convert.

But no, the edict is right, Torah, chachamim, Ruth, David HaMelech are not good enough.

turca

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 2:17 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Blah blah blah
Let me know if any reputable European style chassidish or yeshivish family that would allow and be proud of a child that would marry a convert.
We are simply open about it, and if you don’t like it, too bad!

southernbubby

Sun, Jul 21 2019, 2:24 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I am a BT and many BTs make shidduchim with for their children with the children of gerim. These are healthy shidduchim because of the similarities between BTs and gerim in that they came from other cultures to the frum community. Our grandchildren absolutely should not be exposed to Syrian Jews. Their edict is self serving and we also have to be self serving. We have to make sure that we (BTs and gerim) are proud of who we are and have nothing to do with people who look down on us. I actually think that the average Syrian might even be kinder to a ger than some FFBs but if the point is to keep out gerim to strengthen community cohesiveness, then wherever it applies, gerim should do the same.