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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Clueless guests
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:23 am
creditcards wrote:
No. She said she has a big house with a sefarim room and a succah room. It's only after the meal at night that they have this problem not a whole Shabbos. The guests can decide before Shabbos if it's worth it for them to come and be stuck in their rooms after the night meal or not come at all. I would completely understand it. OP can even suggest that they can hang out in the succah together if there are a few female guests. It will be uncomfortable the first time but then everyone will get used to the rules.
Sounds simple enough to me.


Her dh can also move to the sukkah room or the seforim room after dinner. Then no one would feel uncomfortable. The fact that he won't move speaks to a certain inflexibility. If you can't accommodate guests, then don't. But telling them they can come and then barring them from public parts of the house is just not ok.
And it's not just at night. I understand that she might want to nap in the afternoon.
We host sleepover guests all the time. If for some reason we aren't able to let them hang out in the public areas of the house, we don't have them. It's up to the hosts to give way.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:28 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
Her dh can also move to the sukkah room or the seforim room after dinner. Then no one would feel uncomfortable. The fact that he won't move speaks to a certain inflexibility. If you can't accommodate guests, then don't. But telling them they can come and then barring them from public parts of the house is just not ok.
And it's not just at night. I understand that she might want to nap in the afternoon.
We host sleepover guests all the time. If for some reason we aren't able to let them hang out in the public areas of the house, we don't have them. It's up to the hosts to give way.


But her DH doesn't want to move to the Sukkah room. She is not here to tell DH to be flexible. She wants to invite her guests and the guests can understand her requests and let DH be comfortable in his own house. They can know the rules before Shabbos and decide if it works for them. She doesn't have to fight with DH so her guests can be comfortable. And not inviting them at all over such a small problem would be silly. The guests might not mind at all and want to come anyway.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:35 am
creditcards wrote:
But her DH doesn't want to move to the Sukkah room. She is not here to tell DH to be flexible. She wants to invite her guests and the guests can understand her requests and let DH be comfortable in his own house. They can know the rules before Shabbos and decide if it works for them. She doesn't have to fight with DH so her guests can be comfortable. And not inviting them at all over such a small problem would be silly. The guests might not mind at all and want to come anyway.


The problem is OP is so stuck on how 'socially clueless' her guests are - but won't take any actions to 'counter' that, by filling them in on the 'social rules' they are missing.

There are many solutions to this problem, if OP chooses to clearly communicate.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:41 am
creditcards wrote:
But her DH doesn't want to move to the Sukkah room. She is not here to tell DH to be flexible. She wants to invite her guests and the guests can understand her requests and let DH be comfortable in his own house. They can know the rules before Shabbos and decide if it works for them. She doesn't have to fight with DH so her guests can be comfortable. And not inviting them at all over such a small problem would be silly. The guests might not mind at all and want to come anyway.


When a married couple hosts, they both have to commit to making their guests comfortable. It's not a small problem that her dh is forcing guests to stay in their rooms.

Not everyone hosts. You need to have the means and the space AND the flexibility. OP and her husband don't have the flexibility.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:45 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
When a married couple hosts, they both have to commit to making their guests comfortable. It's not a small problem that her dh is forcing guests to stay in their rooms.

Not everyone hosts. You need to have the means and the space AND the flexibility. OP and her husband don't have the flexibility.


If I would be the guest I would rather want to be offered to come and stay out of DHs way than not be invited at all. It's not so terrible as you make it sound. There are 2 other rooms they can hang out and I assume it's a few singles together so they have each other to keep them company.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:50 am
creditcards wrote:
If I would be the guest I would rather want to be offered to come and stay out of DHs way than not be invited at all. It's not so terrible as you make it sound. There are 2 other rooms they can hang out and I assume it's a few singles together so they have each other to keep them company.


"Please come for shabbos. I go to sleep before the meal ends and I expect you to leave the dining room when I do because my dh feels uncomfortable around you."

In case they don't feel bad enough about being single and needing an invitation, this will really do it.

I guess if they are really desperate they might say yes. But it's awful.
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sarahmalka




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:58 am
OP are these female guests non-religious? If they aren't frum, or not religious in the same way as you and your DH, then you need to kindly and clearly spell out the rules. As a BT, in the early days of being hosted before I knew more cultural norms in the frum community, I would NOT have picked up on any problem hanging out in a public area of the house with several guests and the host, even after the hostess went to bed (especially if it was still on the early side).
If you still want to host from time to time, then pick a few of those single women you feel closest to and tell them clearly what the issues are. If it's the same group of ladies that come and they know each other, maybe you only need to tell one (or two) of them and she can be your agent to deliver the message to the others!
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:02 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
"Please come for shabbos. I go to sleep before the meal ends and I expect you to leave the dining room when I do because my dh feels uncomfortable around you."

In case they don't feel bad enough about being single and needing an invitation, this will really do it.

I guess if they are really desperate they might say yes. But it's awful.


I would really enjoy and would love for you to come but I just have a little problem. DH is a little uncomfortable when female guests hang out in the same room as him when I'm not there. Would it be OK with you to not hang around in the dinning room after I go to sleep at night? I know it's an awkward thing to ask but I'm requesting this from all female guests not just you. If you are OK with it you are more than welcome to come.

Guest would either answer:

Sure, sure, no problem at all

Or

Um, I'll think about it and let you know.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:10 am
creditcards wrote:
I would really enjoy and would love for you to come but I just have a little problem. DH is a little uncomfortable when female guests hang out in the same room as him when I'm not there. Would it be OK with you to not hang around in the dinning room after I go to sleep at night? I know it's an awkward thing to ask but I'm requesting this from all female guests not just you. If you are OK with it you are more than welcome to come.

Guest would either answer:

Sure, sure, no problem at all

Or

Um, I'll think about it and let you know.


This conversation draws attention to the gender of the guests and makes it seem that they are the problem. Dh needs to put on his big boy pants and move to another room. Especially since OP goes to bed early.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:15 am
This whole thread has me baffled.

- For 3 pages, several posters suggested showing guests to the front door when the meal is over. OP liked the idea; her only concern was how to get the ladies to follow her.

- Then, a few pages later, we learn that these guests are SLEEPING at her house.

- So why was she even thinking of showing them to the front door?

OP, you are not feeling well, you and your DH have erected all sorts of rigid social restrictions, and you are unwilling to take reasonable measures to accommodate your guests.

Perhaps this isn't the best time to host.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:19 am
Honestly, I think Olive Oil was right on the money. I've read very similar style threads here before, with a similar style of dropping twists in her story and arguing, etc, trying to wind posters up. Then, as soon as someone points it out, op suddenly stops responding. So, posters can continue to debate if they like, but it would seem to be theoretical only, at this point at least.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:20 am
DrMom wrote:
This whole thread has me baffled.

- For 3 pages, several posters suggested showing guests to the front door when the meal is over. OP liked the idea; her only concern was how to get the ladies to follow her.

- Then, a few pages later, we learn that these guests are SLEEPING at her house.

- So why was she even thinking of showing them to the front door?

OP, you are not feeling well, you and your DH have erected all sorts of rigid social restrictions, and you are unwilling to take reasonable measures to accommodate your guests.

Perhaps this isn't the best time to host.


Could be sometimes the guests sleep there and sometimes not.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:21 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
This conversation draws attention to the gender of the guests and makes it seem that they are the problem. Dh needs to put on his big boy pants and move to another room. Especially since OP goes to bed early.


I assume it's something very cultural, because in the community I grew up in no female would ever get insulted if a male was not comfortable her being in the room without his wife.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:34 am
OP, at this point my post is probably repetitive but you're not obligated to have these guests, end of story. If it's so much trouble for you, just say "this week isn't good for us."

That said, it's not common knowledge that you want guests to leave a public room in the house when they're sleeping in that house and other guests (including presumably married couples) and your DH are still hanging out there. They're not socially clueless for not leaving of their own initiative, especially, when as you said, your DH is friendly so they wouldn't know.

You can tell them until you feel better, you need to limit your overnight guests and this week won't work. You'll call them when you're having guests again.

You can tell them DH likes the dining room/living room area for men only once you leave the table, so they are welcome to come if they're willing to move to the other rooms once you leave. IMO it's a bit weird to ban guests from public rooms in middle of the day, but your house, your rules, and they might be very understanding. As long as you tell them before they come, it's their choice if they're happy with your terms. Please don't say this if married couples stay in the living room with DH. That is just plain hurtful to single women.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 3:29 am
I put my own health first now and don't invite guests more than once or twice a month. I'm in my mid- sixties. I didn't do that when I was younger and ignoring my health needs resulted in illness. Now I'm healthier than I've been in decades, B"H. Only you can take care of you! Refuah shelymah.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:54 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
DH doesn't want to leave the table.


Sounds like you need to get him on board with your needs instead of putting so much on the single females.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 6:42 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I love cooking and hosting. I don't know a nice way to tell guests it is time to leave the table. My health isn't the best, and I need my rest. I can't stay up all hours of the night entertaining. DH doesn't want to be at the table with female guests without me there.

I get calls from single women wanting to come for Shabbos, and I don't know how to handle this. All my guests know my health is poor. I try hinting that I am need to go to sleep. I end up telling them they can't come, and then I feel bad.

Is there a polite way of telling guests they need to leave the table when I need to leave the table? Is it better just to avoid having single females?


I actually like when hosts are direct. No need for excuses.. you're the host, you call the shots. After desert I would announce that it was super nice to have everyone but now it's time to bentch since some people are very tired. It will be a pleasure to welcome everyone back.

I never felt kicked out when the hosts were direct about wanting to sleep or just wanting us to leave.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 7:57 am
DRMom and others make a good point.
sometimes I wonder if there is an agenda to a thread...more like a theoretical "discuss and debate"
nothing personal Op and good luck to you in your "dilemma"
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Learning




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:12 am
I didn’t read the whole thread but could it be that Dh likes the female company and doesn’t cooperate by being passive in that whole situation?
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:18 am
What’s a sukkah room?
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