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Can't relate to my 4 year old



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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:37 am
Our 4 year old is a middle child and likely to remain so. Her older sister is a pleasure - not perfect, of course, but a generally good kid who follows the house rules. The older sister argues with us occasionally, but has always responded to logic. Our 4 year old, well, she doesn't.

She is extremely rigid and inflexible. She wants what she wants when she wants it and no amount of reasoning or explaining or giving alternatives will move her. If I tell her to do something she doesn't want to do or doesn't want to do at the moment then she'll look me right in the eye and say no. If I tell her not to do something then she'll completely ignore me. I can't even count the number of times today I had to tell her to stop bothering the baby, for example. She also has a frustrating way of going quiet when she gets upset over not getting her way instead of telling us what's wrong. Like, she goes mute and won't talk to us for quite a while if we don't do something exactly the way she wants us to.

The thing is that we have a busy household and we have routines set in place and she can't always get her way. Sometimes we just have to move on to the next thing, like ending dinner so we can get to bathtime and bedtime. We give her plenty of warning to finish eating but she seems to deliberately slow down instead of eating normally. Friday night she got upset that we started benching too early even though it was really late and she just refused to move from her chair so DH had to carry her up to bed.

We're just so frustrated and at a loss as to how to relate to her. And before all of you jump on me that it sounds like I don't like her and that she's picking up on it or whatever, yes of course I love her. She can also be sweet and affectionate and funny and we give her lots of attention and affection and she has one-on-one time with both of us over the course of the week. I just lose patience with having to repeat myself all the time and feeling like I'm talking to the air for all the good it does me.

Do any of you have a child like this or suggestions as to how we can relate to her better?
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:40 am
Try to pick your battles wisely and avoid power struggles if possible. Give choices within your structures and routines.
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monkeys




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:50 am
She sounds similar to my oldest. It’s really tough! The book How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen helped me a lot.
I would try to avoid reasoning with her and feeding into a negative attention cycle. Instead use incentives and charts and loads of positive reinforcement. You can also try asking her to think of solutions. We do a lot of deep breathing to calm down. And many times I’ll respond to a “no” or a chutzpadik response with “let’s try that again.”
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:55 am
I think I was a bit like that as a child. Validation might help. “ it must be hard for you that we are leaving the park now, it’s hard to stop doing things that are fun.”
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:57 am
Scheduling is good.
Not giving in the the schedule so she knows that dinner time is dinner time and not after is really important. If you give in once to let her have dinner later than she learns you aren't rigid with it and can disobey.

Initiatives is good. Cleaning up the room so we can play a fun board game, eating all your supper so we can get a piece of desert, going to the dentist so we can go to the park aferwards.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 5:16 am
I only have children like this. At least in terms of the stubbornness. And we have a very rigid routine.

I use a lot of bribery. They get a small piece of chocolate for getting into car seats. My kids are very competitive so sometimes we do races. Who can get dressed first, who can run to the bathtub first.
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pesek zman




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 5:55 am
ectomorph wrote:
I only have children like this. At least in terms of the stubbornness. And we have a very rigid routine.

I use a lot of bribery. They get a small piece of chocolate for getting into car seats. My kids are very competitive so sometimes we do races. Who can get dressed first, who can run to the bathtub first.


Haha. You call it bribery, I call it incentives. Either way, I’m into it. I don’t force feed, but if she eats dinner nicely, she gets ‘dessert’ (tiny piece of chocolate) Chocolate is also used when she cooperates with annoying/unfunny things I ask her to do (try on clothes or shoes, which she dislikes but I need)
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amother
Green


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 7:25 am
I think she’s jealous
Give positive attention
Don’t feed negative
Reward positive behavior
Ignore negative
You can give choices that really aren’t choices.
You can clean up now and then go to the park
OR
You can clean up later and there won’t be time for the park
Then leave her be

If she doesn’t want to talk, leave her be, but she does lose out on something

Stop repeating instructions
Say it no more than 2 times
Then just leave
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jflower




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 7:45 am
Read '123 Magic' for tips on how to get kids to obey without arguing. It helped me a lot.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 7:47 am
I have a theory about oldest children. Oldest children in this sense don't have to be literally the oldest, it's the one who throws you for a loop because everyone else before was a "good child" and this one is outside the frame of reference.

Good for you for looking for insight when she's still young. I'll leave specifics to everyone but want to suggest this: Remember that she's a good child too. She's not easy, sometimes you're at a loss as to what to do, but she's good now, and it will be exciting to watch and guide her growth into the person she's going to be.
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Happydance




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 7:58 am
Stop thinking of her as rigid and inflexible.
She's a kid who has a hard time with transitions/changes/demands. If she could meet your expectations, she would. Have some empathy and try to become more flexible for HER. Read the explosive child. It will teach you how to work with kids like this. Get her evaluated for expressive speech impairments and sensory sensitivities (speech and OT). Learn how to make her environment safer for her.
Hatzlocha
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oneofakind




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:44 am
I think she feels lost in the crowd. She wants power and control so she's davka not going with the flow and shutting down when upset. She's not a responsible oldest nor a cute youngest. I would give her lots of choices and make her feel important by asking her opinion on things, collaborating with her to give her an important job in the house that everybody can praise her for I.e. helping make delicious desserts for Shabbos. She doesn't want to feel like a cog in this wheel.

If you do this and still see no change, then look into her individual language, sensory, etc.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:32 am
Do you update her on what's next in the schedule? Kids can't keep time, so for the more rigid kids, normal scheduled things can come as a shock.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:57 am
Your first kid needed one kind of parenting. With this second, more challenging kid, you have the opportunity to learn a new set of techniques.
My favorite parenting sources for this age are the book Joyful Toddlers and Preschoolers and the blog The Parenting Passageway.
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