Clueless guests s/o (why was it locked?)

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:06 pm

From op's "clueless guests" question:

Quote:

DH enjoys lingering at these Shabbos table. Hs doesn't enjoy socializing with single females. It isn't fair to force him to curtail his Shabbos.

I feel bad because often they don't have a place to go.

I never understand what it means when people say "they have no other place to go". From all the places in the world, in the country, in your community, why do you believe that aside from your particular home, they really have no other place to go? Where would they go if you weren't around?

It's nice to have people over but if you're not feeling up for it, and particularly if you're having health problems that make you need to lie down, why make yourself into a martyr? Even if, theoretically speaking, they really had nowhere to go, would it be so bad for them to stay home?

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:14 pm

I have no idea why it was locked, but I can definitely answer the no place to go question. I didn't marry until my late 20s. I worked/lived in a different city/state than I grew up. I had no place to go for Shabbos many weeks. I didn't know so many people and the ones I did know could be counted on one hand. It's no fun to make your own Shabbos and hang out in your apartment all day alone. So yes, I could have stayed by myself, but I preferred not to be alone. And many times, I called to invite myself to one of only a few families that I knew.

amother

Olive

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:45 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I don't get why so many were berating OP for making a distinction between married women who are there with their husbands and single women being alone with her dh.

It was very unclear that there were no married couples left at the table when OP went to sleep.

Had the story been DH and I and two single women had dinner- it would be much more understandable that when OP went to sleep, socializing ended.

WhatFor

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:55 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

I think by the end it was pretty clear that there WERE still married women at the table when OP wanted the single/divorced women to leave. It's just that they had their husbands with them. OP thought her single guests were clueless for not knowing to leave the public areas of the house when OP left, even if her DH and other married couples were still socializing at the table.

It's funny bc Urban Gypsy wrote that I was one of the people advising to say something and she just rejected it. Well tbf, I qualified it by saying it would be rude and hurtful to say if the married women were still hanging out and better not say that at all.
So it wasn't a solution she could use.

The whole theory behind the values were confusing. In Jewish law, if you think it's bad for men and women to mingle, it's a million times worse when a woman is married. If you think single women are worse than married because they're going to steal your DH, that's a Christian mentality. If you think single women are worse because they don't have a male chaperone, that's an Islamic mentality.

In the frum world, it's confusing to be okay with multiple unrelated married couples sleeping in the same house, socializing in public areas, but not okay with single women joining. It doesn't add up hashkafically.

amother

Linen

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:03 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I don't get why so many were berating OP for making a distinction between married women who are there with their husbands and single women being alone with her dh.

Because they weren't alone with her dh. They were with her dh and the other couples.

Absolutely no difference whether she was there or not.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:12 pm

I think a compromise Shabbos schedule would be a good idea.

One Shabbos, DH goes to hang out with the bochurim, his chavrusa, and the other guys he learns with. They can make a little tish for themselves, drink too much scotch, and have a great time. (Alternate who's house you meet at. Remember that OP needs her rest, and a bunch of tipsy guys are not the most restful background.)

DW can invite over all of her female friends, single, widowed, and divorced. Before I got married, my friends and I loved taking turns hosting all the single ladies. We could laugh, drink a little too much wine, and really be ourselves, without feeling like we had to censor ourselves around the menfolk.

Another Shabbos, only invite married couples, women at one end of the table, and men at the other. Women retire to the living room with tea and cake, and the men can study at the dining room table. Weather permitting, kids out in the back yard.

Set aside one full Shabbos for just the two of you. This is SUPER important. Make all your favorite foods, and dress extra nice.

Set aside another Shabbos for close family members to visit. Cook family favorites, and enjoy time with nieces and nephews, grandma and grandpa, etc.

With a little scheduling, everyone can get their social needs met.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:33 pm

I once had a single woman over who every time I got up to serve , tried to initiate conversation with DH. He kept trying to help me in the kitchen every time I got up, in order to not be at the table.
On her way out, she told me how lovely my DH is, not to worry, that she would never be interested in a married man, as she is looking to get married, but if I die or we get divorced, that she would so go for him.
Makes you say mmmmmm.

Is it bad that even though she asks for invitations, I have never had her back?

momsrus

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:34 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

Just wow

amother

Tan

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:47 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I don't get why so many were berating OP for making a distinction between married women who are there with their husbands and single women being alone with her dh.

because we assumed they were there together- both marrieds and singles and the single women were wanted to leave when she did while she had no problem with the married women staying. if it was just single women alone with her dh then yes I can see why thats uncomf.

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:51 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

Not, it's not bad but normal that you never invited her back. This woman's behavior and what she said are very off.

amother

Tan

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:52 pm

I read the whole thread and do not mean any disrespect to the OP whatsoever but from an outsiders perspective , I have to just give a shout out to raisin for the funniest post ever!!

the post about the Clue game, in search of the cookies...

I literally was laughing so hard.

essie14

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:52 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

Ok that is just SOOOO socially off. I would never have someone like that return to my house. But the OP of the other thread never gave examples like that.

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

From op's "clueless guests" question:

Quote:

Actually, this, out of many things in that thread, is totally understandable.
The ladies are BT/more modern. It seemed that the community is very to the right of them, so not too many families will host them. Other families don't have sleeping arrangements, the way that OP does.

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:55 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

I must have missed that post. What was it?

amother

Slategray

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:58 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

Whoa

So inappropriate and....inappropriate!

We had a single girl once who wouldn't leave after a lunch meal. There were 5 single girls who were guests, but 1 in particular just wouldn't stop chatting with dh. Her mannerisms were very flirtatious. This went on for several hours after the meal was over. The rest of the guests sat quietly. Dh did not know how to extricate himself in the moment, and neither did I. We never had her back.

amother

Tan

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 12:09 am

If he just want to learn -- alone -- for a bit, its easy shmeasy. When OP leaves to go upstairs, he says that he's going to see her up to make sure she's OK, then he'll be learning in the library (aka sefarim room). They're welcome to hang out in the dining room, living room, whatever (or see themselves out if not sleeping guests), the lights go out at time, Shabbat Shalom.

This is starting to sound like a game of frum cluedo. (Clue for americans). Sefarim room...sukkah room...dining room...living room. Which room did Hentche the Hostess put the dessert in after the shabbos meal? And which room is Hershel the Host learning in? Single Shaindy, Divorced Debbie, Widowed Wendy and Irritating Ita go off in search of the chocolate chip cookies. Who found them first? Or did Hershel scoff all the cookies?

Reading it now standing alone it isnt as funny. But in context- after reading over 10 pages of debating which room is appropriate for each person to be in at which time it was literally burst out laughing funny!!.

chestnut

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 12:32 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Lol thanks. It IS funny.
Married Miriam found the cookies!!