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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Clueless guests s/o (why was it locked?)
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amother
Tan


 

Post Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:47 pm
lol
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 4:48 am
It was locked because the OP wasn't really interested in solving her problem.
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STMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:36 am
DrMom wrote:
It was locked because the OP wasn't really interested in solving her problem.


Strongly agree.

This happens way too often here.
OP posts a few details of a problem. People rush in to help. Then another little tease that changes the story somewhat. People adjust their advice and new people chime in. Then another detail gets dangled in front of our faces, something significant, only now it's 2-3 pages later. People are still trying to help, but people who took time out of their life from the very beginning and have been following the thread because they genuinely want to help start to get annoyed. Now OP gets defensive and starts clapping back. Tempers flare. The thread gets locked. Rinse, repeat. It's a tired game.

Those of us who have been here a while can tell when someone really needs assistance and when someone is getting their jollies toying with us.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:39 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
I once had a single woman over who every time I got up to serve , tried to initiate conversation with DH. He kept trying to help me in the kitchen every time I got up, in order to not be at the table.
On her way out, she told me how lovely my DH is, not to worry, that she would never be interested in a married man, as she is looking to get married, but if I die or we get divorced, that she would so go for him.
Makes you say mmmmmm.

Is it bad that even though she asks for invitations, I have never had her back?


Is that supposed to be representative of how all single women behave at shabbos meals? What’s the point of your story?
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:16 am
I think it was locked because it was going in circles with increasing hostility.

But I am curious how it's on the top of the trending list if it's locked. I guess people are still able to hug and like posts but still interesting to me.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:16 am
amother [ Amber ] wrote:
Is that supposed to be representative of how all single women behave at shabbos meals? What’s the point of your story?


Yeah - was wondering myself.
Of course it's a creepy story, and I'd never pick up the phone if that woman called.
It's just that from this story, and from the original poster's story, single women are not being portrayed in a very flattering light.

Based on the people I know, a lot of single women are very put together, polite, well functioning and not at all clueless. And certainly not after other women's husbands.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:18 am
Was wondering why so many people were getting so aggravated and aggressive with their responses. If they didn't like how OP was wording her story, or her reaction to their suggestions, why not just walk away? Why get so insulting? What's it to them?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:24 am
groovy1224 wrote:
I think it was locked because it was going in circles with increasing hostility.

But I am curious how it's on the top of the trending list if it's locked. I guess people are still able to hug and like posts but still interesting to me.


I think threads that are locked are read precisely because they are locked as it makes one curious as to what was so controversial on the thread so as to cause it to be locked.

As to why it was locked, I have to agree with posters in that the dynamics of the thread were such that it served no purpose since it was getting heated.

Obviously (or at least obviously to me LOL ) the OP really had no interest in actually solving a dilemma as every solution was met with a BUT and no sometimes contradictory "facts" were added.

If the OP was actually genuine, I suspect there might have been further unstated issues because the dilemma as stated made no sense - maybe unspoken hostility towards specific single woman? Who knows? But I was never able to get a clear picture as to why single women were expected to know that they must leave any room that her husband was in when the hostess left. It wasn't clear whether this was in the middle of the meal - whether there were other women present - why had they retired to couches instead of sitting around the table etc.
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:34 am
Amarante wrote:
I think threads that are locked are read precisely because they are locked as it makes one curious as to what was so controversial on the thread so as to cause it to be locked.


I'm curious what constitutes 'activity' on a thread. Does being clicked on count? I used to think that trending meant that people were actively replying on a thread, but the fact that a locked thread can be considered trending obviously means that's wrong.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 8:05 am
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
Was wondering why so many people were getting so aggravated and aggressive with their responses. If they didn't like how OP was wording her story, or her reaction to their suggestions, why not just walk away? Why get so insulting? What's it to them?


Because they put in time and energy in trying to help someone, only to first find out that they only had a small portion of the story (when the OP said that she liked a suggestion by one poster (call her "A") but rejected near-identical suggestions by many other poster because A was "nice" (clearly suggesting the others were not).

I understand that people may not thing a detail is important, and will add it later. I don't get leaving out broad swaths of a story, then getting upset that people didn't know it.

As to why it was closed ... I guess that there really wasn't anything left to say.

Oh. And I still want to know what a "sukkah room" is.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 8:09 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Because they put in time and energy in trying to help someone, only to first find out that they only had a small portion of the story (when the OP said that she liked a suggestion by one poster (call her "A") but rejected near-identical suggestions by many other poster because A was "nice" (clearly suggesting the others were not).

I understand that people may not thing a detail is important, and will add it later. I don't get leaving out broad swaths of a story, then getting upset that people didn't know it.

As to why it was closed ... I guess that there really wasn't anything left to say.

Oh. And I still want to know what a "sukkah room" is.


I think a sukkah room is a permanently enclosed large balcony with a retractable roof.

I was wondering if sephorim are purchased at sephora - but only because I was loosing patience with OP.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 8:13 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Because they put in time and energy in trying to help someone, only to first find out that they only had a small portion of the story (when the OP said that she liked a suggestion by one poster (call her "A") but rejected near-identical suggestions by many other poster because A was "nice" (clearly suggesting the others were not).

I understand that people may not thing a detail is important, and will add it later. I don't get leaving out broad swaths of a story, then getting upset that people didn't know it.

As to why it was closed ... I guess that there really wasn't anything left to say.

Oh. And I still want to know what a "sukkah room" is.


I agree. I think I was very nice and even defended OP a few times in the beginning of the thread. There was no response or even an acknowledgement to my posts. Then a few pages down the line poster A suggested almost identical to my original post and finally there was the first post that OP liked. It was literally exactly the same thing I suggested in the beginning. But OP decided I wasn't nice. There wasn't a single part in my post that wasn't nice. Part of the problem was that OP responded nothing at all and let the posters argue between ourselves. She asked a question, let us have a one sided conversation. Without any proper responses posters get frustrated when their suggestions are ignored. If you don't like my suggestion at least say so and why and let me respond accordingly.

Oh, edited to add: A sukkah room is a room with a ceiling that you can open. Or skylights that you can open. On succos it becomes a succah. You open the sky lights put some schach on top and you have an indoor succah.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 8:43 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
I once had a single woman over who every time I got up to serve , tried to initiate conversation with DH. He kept trying to help me in the kitchen every time I got up, in order to not be at the table.
On her way out, she told me how lovely my DH is, not to worry, that she would never be interested in a married man, as she is looking to get married, but if I die or we get divorced, that she would so go for him.
Makes you say mmmmmm.

Is it bad that even though she asks for invitations, I have never had her back?


I'm soooo laid back but if someone told me that I think she'd get slapped
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 10:58 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
If he just want to learn -- alone -- for a bit, its easy shmeasy. When OP leaves to go upstairs, he says that he's going to see her up to make sure she's OK, then he'll be learning in the library (aka sefarim room). They're welcome to hang out in the dining room, living room, whatever (or see themselves out if not sleeping guests), the lights go out at time, Shabbat Shalom.


This is starting to sound like a game of frum cluedo. (Clue for americans). Sefarim room...sukkah room...dining room...living room. Which room did Hentche the Hostess put the dessert in after the shabbos meal? And which room is Hershel the Host learning in? Single Shaindy, Divorced Debbie, Widowed Wendy and Irritating Ita go off in search of the chocolate chip cookies. Who found them first? Or did Hershel scoff all the cookies?

Reading it now standing alone it isnt as funny. But in context- after reading over 10 pages of debating which room is appropriate for each person to be in at which time it was literally burst out laughing funny!!.


Aww thank you! I was feeling ignored and went off to eat all the cookies in my Sefarim Room.

Now I am thinking about what a dream frum house would include.

Sukkah room
sefarim room
library (for secular pareve books)
Pesach Kitchen
Milchig kitchen
Fleishig kitchen
Shabbos dining room (with washing hand station)
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 11:02 am
Raisin wrote:
Aww thank you! I was feeling ignored and went off to eat all the cookies in my Sefarim Room.

Now I am thinking about what a dream frum house would include.

Sukkah room
sefarim room
library (for secular pareve books)
Pesach Kitchen
Milchig kitchen
Fleishig kitchen
Shabbos dining room (with washing hand station)


In England most people do have an in-built sukka. This kind of roof: http://www.sukkaroofs.com/

Does no one have this in the States?
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amother
Tan


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 11:02 am
and a female living room. and a male living room. to hang out in!
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 11:04 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
and a female living room. and a male living room. to hang out in!


Nope a female married living room adjacent to the male married living room. Then female single living room and male single living room.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 11:09 am
I forgot! Super important! Tallis bag, kapota and hat room, just off the front door. With extra space for the 15 jackets that husbands need to have going at any one time. And a tie rack.

Personally I would rather have a sukka outside with space heaters than a sukkah room. I like eating outside.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 11:17 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Because they put in time and energy in trying to help someone, only to first find out that they only had a small portion of the story (when the OP said that she liked a suggestion by one poster (call her "A") but rejected near-identical suggestions by many other poster because A was "nice" (clearly suggesting the others were not).

I understand that people may not thing a detail is important, and will add it later. I don't get leaving out broad swaths of a story, then getting upset that people didn't know it.

As to why it was closed ... I guess that there really wasn't anything left to say.

Oh. And I still want to know what a "sukkah room" is.


Maybe a sukkah room is a room that has a removable ceiling, and can be converted to a sukkah as needed.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 23 2019, 11:23 am
WhatFor wrote:
I think by the end it was pretty clear that there WERE still married women at the table when OP wanted the single/divorced women to leave. It's just that they had their husbands with them. OP thought her single guests were clueless for not knowing to leave the public areas of the house when OP left, even if her DH and other married couples were still socializing at the table.

It's funny bc Urban Gypsy wrote that I was one of the people advising to say something and she just rejected it. Well tbf, I qualified it by saying it would be rude and hurtful to say if the married women were still hanging out and better not say that at all.
So it wasn't a solution she could use.

The whole theory behind the values were confusing. In Jewish law, if you think it's bad for men and women to mingle, it's a million times worse when a woman is married. If you think single women are worse than married because they're going to steal your DH, that's a Christian mentality. If you think single women are worse because they don't have a male chaperone, that's an Islamic mentality.

In the frum world, it's confusing to be okay with multiple unrelated married couples sleeping in the same house, socializing in public areas, but not okay with single women joining. It doesn't add up hashkafically.


Assuming you are not 12 and have lived in a RW community a few years
It's not about halacha or Haskafa

It's about culture . Married women work and need to deal with therapist doctors repairman attorneys etc...
Single girls often are very sheltered and have zero contact with men especially if they don't work in a secular place
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