Clueless guests s/o (why was it locked?)

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:16 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

That wasn't the fact OP originally gave. In the original DH liked to linger at the table with who ever was at the table.

Yes.

And at other times, the guests weren't at the table with him, but reading on nearby couches -- given the open plan of her home, the living room and dining room are essentially one large room.

Nothing else makes sense. OP mentioned that there is a "seforim room" that is apparently separate; if there were no other guests, and her husband wanted to learn, wouldn't that be the logical place, leaving the guests in the living/dining room.

amother

Olive

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:19 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Its his house - he wants to learn at the table. I get that.

The ladies might not understand him at the table, and them on the couches is not acceptable - hence they need to be given direct instructions where to hang out.

If DH isn't retiring for the night - they shouldn't be pushed into their rooms either if there are other rooms they could sit in and talk.

oliveoil

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:21 pm

I don't understand why anyone is still bothering with this poster.

This is her M.O.
She changes the story more times than a newborn's diaper, assumes everyone understands her life, home, and personal compulsions, argues endlessly, is not remotely interested in any actual input, thinks circularly (and that's being generous) and calls everyone else crazy for not agreeing with her.

Why bother?

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:22 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

Of course. And I've repeatedly suggested that when the OP leaves, she could say "DH likes to learn at the dining room table after dinner. You can chat or read WHEREVER IS AVAILABLE, or there are Shabbat lights in your room if you want to read." But that's apparently not an acceptable solution.

amother

Olive

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:23 pm

oliveoil wrote:

I'm bored.

amother

Copper

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:38 pm

oliveoil wrote:

You are right. I am not interested in what you say because you aren't constructive.

You love to be a nasty bully. This gives you a feeling of superiority when you know you are a failure. Your thinking is defective. Because you can't follow something, you attack. I have seen it time and time again.

Please show me where MY story changed? I can't control the assumptions and stories the posters make up.

amother

Olive

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:43 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

You are right. I am interested in you because you aren't constructive.

You love to be a nasty bully. This gives you a feeling of superiority when you know you are a failure. Your thinking is defective. Because you can't follow something, you attack. I have seen it time and time again.

Please show me where MY story changed? I can't control the assumptions and stories the posters make up.

I don't get this. The single women you can't bring yourself to show them another room to sit in - but online, this happens?

In the OP your first page you were clearly asked who was at the table when you left. If it was just going to be DH and the single ladies - that is what you should have said.

nechamashifra

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 6:55 pm

Can I just add something to this fun thread that I don't think has been mentioned throughout the 5 + 12 pages yet?
In my not so humble opinion, inviting guests is not supposed to be a favour to the guests, unless they're homeless and/or hungry. No one wants to be a charity case. Even if you think they're socially off or clueless, there actually are people out there who enjoy their company and who would gladly invite them.

If you're going to have rules, if your husband doesn't want to budge from his usual routine and go learn in a different room, if you want them in their rooms by "curfew time", just say no, you're not up for guests at this time.

No one said it's a mitzvah to be a martyr. Some people love having guests, leave this mitzvah to them. Find another mitzvah that you can do with happiness.

oliveoil

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:01 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

WhatFor

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:12 pm

Copper you said the following facts in this thread and the other:

1- single women stay out at the table (or couches) while DH is still at the table
2- DH doesn't want to end the meal or go to another room because there are still men at the table with whom he still wishes to socialize.
3- DH doesn't invite single men when single women are there

Logical conclusion 1: the men in item 2 with whom DH is socializing are married men.

You also stated the following

4- the married women leave the table and go to their rooms when their husbands leave

Logical conclusion 2: the married women are still at the table when DH is socializing with men in item 2.

It's not clueless for a single woman to stay and socialize with married couples. It's rude to ask them to leave while married women stay out and socialize.

amother

Copper

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 7:56 pm

WhatFor wrote:

I don't have the patience to go back and look at this and the other thread. You are remembering what you think I wrote.

Item 3 you said that I wrote "DH doesn't invite single men when single women are there. "

What I actually said was "usually". I am not going to look for anymore quotes.

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

We usually don't have single male and single female guests together.

That's quite different than what you are saying.

chestnut

Tue, Jul 23 2019, 8:38 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Of course, it's not, because there are married couples AND single women at the table. When the wife leaves, the couples stay at the table and the husband enjoys schmoozing with the men, while their wives just listen in or put in their 2 cents also. He isn't comfortable, however, with single women talking/just being there, so they gotta go.
I'm more and more agreeing with whoever suggested that the wife might be the one uncomfortable with single women being around her husband without her present there. If it were a community sensitivity issue, the husband wouldn't be ok with married women being there, either.

naturalmom5

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:07 am

chestnut wrote:

We had a thread just like this a few years ago
After much teeth pulling the OP admitted to being insecure

urban gypsy

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 10:08 am

WhatFor wrote:

It's funny bc Urban Gypsy wrote that I was one of the people advising to say something and she just rejected it. Well tbf, I qualified it by saying it would be rude and hurtful to say if the married women were still hanging out and better not say that at all.
So it wasn't a solution she could use.

The whole theory behind the values were confusing. In Jewish law, if you think it's bad for men and women to mingle, it's a million times worse when a woman is married. If you think single women are worse than married because they're going to steal your DH, that's a Christian mentality. If you think single women are worse because they don't have a male chaperone, that's an Islamic mentality.

In the frum world, it's confusing to be okay with multiple unrelated married couples sleeping in the same house, socializing in public areas, but not okay with single women joining. It doesn't add up hashkafically.

Hi WhatFor, I hope I understood your original posts correctly, but I meant that you suggested communicating with the guests in advance regarding expectations, not about the difference between single/married guest rules.

I can't tell you how much I agree with your astute assessment about the confusion regarding single/married women mingling. I remember we had a similar thread about married couples renting a house together over Yom Tov and getting angry about a single girl who was an indirect relative joining them. It was EXACTLY the same problem and over there I also was unable to explain that married couples mingling was worse than singles mingling. It's really frustrating and illogical and drives me nuts. Thanks for articulating so beautifully.

urban gypsy

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 10:09 am

WhatFor wrote:

WhatFor, you aren't a card carrying member of MENSA like OP/copper is, so I'm sure that your rational and well reasoned arguments are worthless to her.
Nice try but you aren't smart or nice enough to convince her, sorry. Banging head