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Pay debt vs reduce expenses?



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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 12:38 am
Just curious which would be the "right" choice.

I was auditing my expenses, and breaking down which ones are recurring. I crunched the numbers on my paper goods usage, which has crept up as my dish supply dwindles. We are now spending on average $5 per week on cheap paper plates and styrofoam bowls, mostly for Shabbos. When you add that up, it turns out we are spending over $250 a year on it.

We have a dishwasher B"H, but literally do not have a set of dishes that could carry us through a single Shabbos meal (let alone the whole Shabbos).

To get enough decent dishes to make it doable to use on Shabbos (I.e. enough for us + guests) would cost $300 before tax. My estimate is that it would knock our paper goods usage down to well under $50 a year.

On one hand it's a no-brainer, because it would pay for itself in under a year and a half. On the other hand we have existing debt.

Would you sooner pay debt or make an investment that saves you money on an ongoing basis?
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amother
Pink


 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 12:40 am
You can get nice dishes for much cheaper than that.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 12:43 am
I can't answer that as it may depend on the interest rate of your debt. But you can definitely get dishes for less that $300. I feel like I occasionally see service for 16 for under $100. It might be Amazing Savings /Home Goods or some other random discount place, and it is not consistently, but it is out there.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 12:50 am
LOL, I knew that would happen. I wasn't really asking for advice on my choice of dishes.

I know I can get cheaper dishes than that, but I also know that certain dishes will break quickly, not clean well in the dishwasher, and not look decent enough for Shabbos.

Due to my family size B"H and guests, I need service for 24, including lunch size (8") and dinner size (9-10") plates, as well as bowls, plus extras so that the kids can eat on Erev Shabbos. Having played around with a number of options, and tried many dishes in my lifetime, Corelle is the most logical choice, and two of their 78-piece sets ($150 each on sale) would hit the sweet spot in terms of sufficient dishes.

We currently use Walmart special ($1 for 4) cheapo real plastic plates that warp in the dishwasher and microwave for most of our weekday meals. We use the bowls too, which take up way too much space in the dishwasher because of their shape. But I can't do that for Shabbos.
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baby12x




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 1:46 am
I wouldn't. It's $5 a week- not exactly going to make s huge dent in your debt. And are you honestly going to put $5 a week towards your debt? Dont spend a dollar to save a dime.
Look for other ways to cut out expenses to pay down debt or to save cash for the dishes.

Do you have cleaning help? Do you buy pizza? Cuttibg those out once a week would be more bang for your buck.

The best way to cut expenses is too focus on big expenses: housing, transportation, childcare and bills. Go through those and see if you can lower those and you will see progress more quickly.
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 3:01 am
Can you pay the $300 outright? Meaning - pay cash and not go into debt for that purchase. If that is the case and you won't be paying interest on the purchase I would say do it. You will however have an increase in water costs (if you pay for water) and dishwasher Soap etc. and that should be taken into account but long term, it does seem cheaper IF you aren't paying interest on those dishes.
But also take into account what your debt is like now- how high is the percentage and would that $300 save you a lot on interest? In other words, if you have 1000 in debt vs 50,000 it would make a big difference on how much "bang for your buck" you get.
Also, look to see what other expenses can be reduced or eliminated. I am a big fan of shutting off lights. Saves us a ton on electricity. What about shopping habits? Where you buy things? Convenience goods? Do you buy snack bags? Or I buy huge bags of pretzels and other snacks and divide into (store brand) ziplocks.
These ideas also have to work for you and your lifestyle. Some days even if I have dishes clean I need plastic for my sanity. No time to wash etc. if that's you, it might not pay for itself as quickly.
I am not an accountant so please do your own research and calculations.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 3:17 am
We don't buy pizza, no cleaning help at this time, water is very cheap, no snack bags, no childcare. We shut lights but electricity is still insane, no car, only get taxis or rent cars when there is no other choice.

My cheshbon is that $300 toward debt might save $8 per month (based on current credit card finance charges), but this would save $15 per month.

Obviously would only buy if I had cash available, just wanted to know if the "right" thing is to buy this with an eye towards lowering expenses, or to put that money towards debt.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 6:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
LOL, I knew that would happen. I wasn't really asking for advice on my choice of dishes.

I know I can get cheaper dishes than that, but I also know that certain dishes will break quickly, not clean well in the dishwasher, and not look decent enough for Shabbos.

Due to my family size B"H and guests, I need service for 24, including lunch size (8") and dinner size (9-10") plates, as well as bowls, plus extras so that the kids can eat on Erev Shabbos. Having played around with a number of options, and tried many dishes in my lifetime, Corelle is the most logical choice, and two of their 78-piece sets ($150 each on sale) would hit the sweet spot in terms of sufficient dishes.

We currently use Walmart special ($1 for 4) cheapo real plastic plates that warp in the dishwasher and microwave for most of our weekday meals. We use the bowls too, which take up way too much space in the dishwasher because of their shape. But I can't do that for Shabbos.

If this is really the item in your budget that makes a difference (good for you for doing this in-depth analysis!) then I think you've received decent advice.

Maybe you can buy 1 set of Corelle now and wait until another set goes on sale (maybe around the December holidays).

Or get reusable plastic picnicware -- not, it's not as nice as Corelle, but it's a solution that ticks all the other boxes.

Also, if money is that tight, do you really need "lunch size" and "dinner size" plates? Can't you eat lunch on dinner plates and perhaps save yourself some cash?

Plastic disposables that warp in the microwave may not be the healthiest choice...
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 7:09 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Would you sooner pay debt or make an investment that saves you money on an ongoing basis?

Depends on the situation.

Most debt has interest attached to it, so it actually costs money to keep the debt. How high is the interest?

There's also the question of the type of debt. Are you talking a loan from a friend who needs her money back, credit card debt, a home mortgage from a bank... ?

And how quickly could you pay it back?

I wouldn't go out and buy dishes for $300 if I owed $500 to a neighbor or $1,000 on a credit card. OTOH, if I owed $100,000 on a mortgage, I would.

(also, I know the dishes themselves aren't the point, but 1. what works for me is a smaller set of Shabbas dishes that are washed by hand between meals. and if a large group of guests comes, we use disposable, 2. I lean in favor of 'buy the dishes' just because disposables are so not environmentally friendly)

(also not the question? but come on, $5 a week is what, 30 minutes of work at minimum wage? It's hard to imagine a scenario where finding a way to start saving $5 a week, starting 18 months from now, has any real impact on ability to pay off debt one way or the other. I mean it can't hurt, just - be sure you don't lose sight of the big picture.)
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 8:02 am
It looks like you want the Corelle. I don't know how much you will actually save when you take into account electricity(which you say is high where you live), water, dish detergent. Also, can you fit service for 24 in your dishwasher?

We costed out the options of plastic, dishwasher, and hand washing. Dishwashing was by far the most expensive. Cheap plastic was the least expensive. The problem is that I upgrade to nice plastic which is more expensive than using the dish washer and bad for the environment.

If every Shabbos, you are wishing for Corelle, you should treat yourself.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 8:45 am
OP, is this the only item in your budget that you have identified for potential cost-savings?

For a large family, if this ~$250 item is the only savings opportunity you've identified, then I assume you've already optimized the major items and are already running a super-lean household operation.

How much debt do you have? Will this $250/year make a dent? It's not much...

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate some larger expenses or explore ways to increase income?
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 9:24 am
The economics of using disposables doesn't make sense however you slice it.

You are spending $20 a month on disposables in order to save $8 a month at most. Moreover, you will break even in less than a year and then you will continue to save for the life of the dishes. In the future you have dishes and can replace as needed so you never need plastics again. I would think an attractive set of Corelle dishes is also nicer than disposables but I don't use disposables except for an outdoor BBQ.

The cost of running a load of dishes Is pretty minimal and is actually more energy efficient than washing by hand - but that's a different issue.

Not stated but for me using that quantity of disposable plastic and paper every week is a slap on the environment because it is completely unnecessary.

Also, there are beautiful sets of fine china that people are begging others to take because he lifestyle of many younger people means that they no longer want large sets of fancy china. You would be amazed at what is available for cheap on craigslist. I couldn't give away my Bubbe's Limoges china set for 16. And there is also a styling trend for fancy china that isn't a set.
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aliavi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 10:41 am
I have and love Corelle (for weekday). If you are in NY they are made in Corning, NY. The website for the factory store specifically located there is strangely named so I can’t remember it to post. Call and try to get it. They have great sale prices and do sale on top of sale.

If you want it, sacrificing something else for it isn’t so hard.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 10:51 am
aliavi wrote:
I have and love Corelle (for weekday). If you are in NY they are made in Corning, NY. The website for the factory store specifically located there is strangely named so I can’t remember it to post. Call and try to get it. They have great sale prices and do sale on top of sale.

If you want it, sacrificing something else for it isn’t so hard.


It used to be www.shopworldkitchen.com. But it looks like its now just https://www.corelle.com/

That said, the interest on credit card debt is obscene. I'd pay that down before investing in dishes, even if the dishes would save you money in the long run. While you're waiting, look for sales and coupons.
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aliavi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 10:55 am
SixOfWands wrote:
It used to be www.shopworldkitchen.com. But it looks like its now just https://www.corelle.com/

That said, the interest on credit card debt is obscene. I'd pay that down before investing in dishes, even if the dishes would save you money in the long run. While you're waiting, look for sales and coupons.


Yes! That’s the site.

Agree about credit card debt.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 05 2019, 1:01 pm
amother [ Wheat ] wrote:
The economics of using disposables doesn't make sense however you slice it.

You are spending $20 a month on disposables in order to save $8 a month at most. Moreover, you will break even in less than a year and then you will continue to save for the life of the dishes. In the future you have dishes and can replace as needed so you never need plastics again. I would think an attractive set of Corelle dishes is also nicer than disposables but I don't use disposables except for an outdoor BBQ.

The cost of running a load of dishes Is pretty minimal and is actually more energy efficient than washing by hand - but that's a different issue.

Not stated but for me using that quantity of disposable plastic and paper every week is a slap on the environment because it is completely unnecessary.

Also, there are beautiful sets of fine china that people are begging others to take because he lifestyle of many younger people means that they no longer want large sets of fancy china. You would be amazed at what is available for cheap on craigslist. I couldn't give away my Bubbe's Limoges china set for 16. And there is also a styling trend for fancy china that isn't a set.


DH and I costed it out. Dishwasher was definitely way more expensive than hand washing. The amount of electricity used was not insignificant. When I say costed it out, we figured how much additional electricity each load of dishes used. I love crunching numbers, and he had access to the increase in electricity. Our utilities are broken down in detail. We can see the electrical surge on Shabbos each time the lights go on. It was kind of good natured fun for us. But it showed me he was correct about the expense of the dishwasher.

Kosher people can't buy used China.
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