Feeling cheated about Shabbos Nachamu Program

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amother

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:17 pm

I didn't think to ask. I thought more than corn chips and potato chips was expected in most tea rooms. I thought having adequate food for the number of guests you are taking money from is also expected. Guess I was wrong

amother

Khaki

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:18 pm

Sebastian wrote:

so stay home

I do!

amother

Khaki

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You went into this weekend with a set of expectations based on other people's experiences going on different programs.

Yes - if you paid for 8 meals, there should be enough food to supply 8 meals.

They aren't 'taking money from you' - you are paying.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:20 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

Yes. Raizy Pavlov did an amazing pound workout with glow for women, and licht did a great science show.
I guess were talking about different programs. We were very happy.

I was there. We were very happy as well

After reading all this, I see how lucky we are.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:23 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

Totally different program.

Curious did they only serve off of paper goods?

Yes, they served in plastic and everyone was perfectly happy.

Food was abundant and delicious.

Atmosphere and crowd were wonderful.

Who cares about the plastic?

amother

Yellow

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:25 pm

Op, in your original post you said the meals were decent even if not fancy. It was the breakfast, tearoom, and snacks that you were unhappy about.

For a no frills kind of program, that's what I would expect. I understand it was a lot of money for you to spend, but reality is that price is what a no frills program costs. For a hugely lavish and abundant program it is unlikely you will pay that amount for a whole shabbos/2 night stay.

amother

Denim

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:16 pm

Wouldn't a rating system thing be considered LH?

amother

Ecru

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 11:31 pm

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Yes, they served in plastic and everyone was perfectly happy.

Food was abundant and delicious.

Atmosphere and crowd were wonderful.

Who cares about the plastic?

Ditto!
The plastic was not a concern for me at all, I even appreciate that its more sanitary LoL.
The waitress of our table told us that she cant understand how we eat so many meals a day!
It was pathetically funny. Borderline embarrassing. Hiding

amother

Honeydew

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 11:44 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

There was entertainment but nothing special.

what was the entertainment??

amother

Smokey

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 12:30 am

OP, sounds like you wanted to feel pampered, and the food was supposed to be an important part of that. Sounds like you're busy and stressed in day-to-day life, and really were looking forward to a getaway where you could forget about all that for a little while. I'm somebody who uses food for comfort and relaxation so I can understand your disappointment. In my experience, planning a staycation and buying really good Shabbos takeout, and buying all the splurges you wish for (like the cheesecake, and the viennese crunch, and the chocolates) is a more reliable way of getting the food and the relaxing pampered feeling you wanted. I think a lot of people who go to the programs are going because they want to spend Shabbos with a big extended family without having to worry about logistics, or because they want to go somewhere different and the draw is the change of scenery more than the food. If food was the main thing for you, then a $1000 program isn't going to make you happy, but it probably did make other people happy if they had different priorities than you. If food is #1, then you've got to go to a more expensive program, or arrange a staycation. I've done staycations before and they've been awesome! Something to consider?

WhatFor

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 12:57 am

Hi OP, I'm sorry you were disappointed. The best way to know what to expect is to ask specific questions to others who have previously used the same program. In this day and age of organizers up and cancelling the day before events, you have to be careful.

Words like "lavish" are advertising terms that carry equal weight as "amazing", "fantastic", etc. It's a subjective term that probably couldn't be used to prove fraud, even if you were disappointed. Fraud is closer to telling someone you'll give them eight meals when in fact you intend to give them two for their money. Or just Google Fyrefest for an extreme example. It's awful to spend so much money and be disappointed, but it's like if someone said the food was "gourmet" and you thought it was eh. It's definitely something to note for next time, but not necessarily fraudulent.

Editing to add: I just noticed that in your op, the word "lavish" came from a woman at the program telling you they told her that on the phone? Meaning, you didn't buy into the program under that premise? It's kind of a stretch to claim that they advertised it that way based on the say-so some woman you just met. Maybe that's the impression she came away with. Either way, I'm sorry you were disappointed.

Last edited by WhatFor on Tue, Aug 20 2019, 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 1:07 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

I mentioned the ladies kiddishes before in this thread. It's horrible the way the moms socialize and ignore the chaos around them. My neighbor let the shul host a kiddish in her house. Her walls got destroyed. Kids were rubbing food on the walls! They were jumping out of 1st floor windows by climbing on couches. They broke something I pointed it to the mom who just shrugged her shoulders. The kids stick their hands in food. Take a plate and drop it wherever.

I rather have a mens only kiddish because the men are more respectful. Even though 4 times as many men show up as ladies, and they drink, they leave the home in much better shape.

I try to be understanding and say that the moms don't get out much. It's a selfish attitude. The behavior of the kids is inexcusable. All of them know how to behave. The kids think it is one big recess with minimal adult supervision.

Gotta love the assumption that women will be coming with all their kids, while men will leave the kids with their wife and come alone.

If that's the attitude, no wonder the women are so desperate for a break that they're willing to overlook some bad behavior.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 1:49 am

Hi,OP maybe we met over shabbos,perhaps we chatted a bit.(Im 99.99%sure that you are describing the shabbos nachmu program I attended.The details gave it all away.) I agree with you, that the food wasnt "lavish"yet it was delicious, plentiful and nicely presented. (Friday nignight they served 3 dips per person,and after the soup we got this incredible ,generous portion of soft meat and grilled chicken The shabbos morning fishnsaga,is annoying but the caterer prepared some extra platters of fish at the kiddush following davening for thise makpid to eat fish (they had salmon and gefilta)the hotel was beautiful, and the program was terrific. Again ,the food was not over the top,but there was lots of food to go around,the tea room waas stocked (not with nuts ,but wwith drinks,cookies etc) I think the price was fair, 1,000 for a beautiful hotel room,8 full meals,waited service for the 2 shabbos meals, (served on real dishes),entertainment for kids and adults,etc. We did not feel cheted or ripped off. I would actually come again.

amother

Wine

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 4:21 am

ora_43 wrote:

If women are so desperate for a break, then bring your kids to a playground, not someone else's home or a hotel where they won't be watched. You can't justify pushing your kids' bad behavior off on others because you want a break. It's not nice.

The older girls can be enlisted to watch the younger kids or a babysitter can be hired. There needs to be consideration for your host's home.

FYI the women don't come with all their kids to the kiddishes. They come with only those too young to go to shul and older girls who don't cause any problems. The men and the boys make up the large majority of these kiddishes.

You can read the reveiws if what goes on at the Parsippany motel if you want a flavor of what happens at these kiddishes.

WhatFor

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 5:54 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

I don't think that was Ora's point. She was responding to a post that said the men are way more polite because they don't make a mess. The women come with children and therefore they are rude.

If men can come to a Kiddush without children then so should women, or vice versa. I think Ora was pointing out that the men are being praised for basically not supervising their children from a greater distance than the women. It's a systemic issue and it sounds like you feed into it. Why should the older daughters babysit? Did they choose to have children? No. Their father did though, where is he? (No child should be forced to care for children they didn't choose to birth but it's telling that you think the daughters should have to babysit and not the sons.)

Presumably both parents are also at the hotels with their children running amok. Why is there this expectation that the man is a sperm donor and excused from raising his children while the women are the irresponsible ones? They're both rude and irresponsible. Or who knows: maybe their older daughter is babysitting, just like you suggested. Only there's a reason her body isn't ready to have children as evidenced by the cake her toddler sister is smashing on the wall and the fact that her seven year old brother just moved the couch so he can climb up on it and crawl out the window.

amother

cornflower

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:07 am

I was also appalled by the poster who claimed she wants to host men because 'they behave better'.
The men are coming solo! I should hope grown men know how to behave!
She should have said simply that she prefers the men because they don't bring their kids. (Whether that makes them better or worse parents is up for debate)

amother

Wine

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:38 am

WhatFor wrote:

If the moms don't want to watch their kids while the husbands doven, then someone should be watching them. Who do you think it should be if the moms are taking a break? The hotel staff? Maybe the men shouldn't doven? The current system where kids run amok is not fair to the other guests. Nor is it safe for the kids to be running around unsupervised. It teaches kids disrespect.

The moms can come to the kiddishes without their kids. Who says they can't?

The ladies kiddishes are not in the same location as the mens kiddishes in my shul. The men are free to come get their kids. They are free to have teens of any gender watch their kids. They are free to hire babysitters. What is wrong is leaving those kids without supervision and with leave to disrespect someone's home. The parent who brings their child is responsible for that child.

Generally in large families, it is rare to see teen daughters not helping out at all. I see kids as young as 6 being a second set of eyes for the moms. What happens at these kiddishes is the older girls see their moms relaxing and schmoozing, so they do the same.

DH sometimes will tell me of kids misbehaving in shul like boys like flinging their kugel when no one was around. I would be devastated if this happened in my home.

Being respectful of others shouldn't be controversial in the slightest.

amother

Wine

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:39 am

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

But the men do bring their boys.

amother

cornflower

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:50 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

But the men do bring their boys.

So the men supervise their kids better than the women? Or do the men only bring older boys?
In any case, you are twisting words. No one suggested it is controversial to expect parents to supervise their kids in public.

People raised an eyebrow at the way you extolled men for behaving better at the kiddush. They aren't behaving better, they just aren't coming with babies, toddlers and little kids.

watergirl

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:52 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

Stop at the bolded. If the moms don't want to want to watch their kids while their husbands are not able to, too bad. No one else should watch them. This is not break time for mommy. Later, when the fathers are not davening, they can take a shift and give mom a break.

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