Tzedakah and Vacation

dankbar

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 7:43 am

Maybe instead of giving them money to use as they wish, give directly for certain bills. Let's say pay directly to school for their tuition. Pay directly to grocery for food.
You can anonymously put it onto their account so they have a credit etc...

Maybe they dont know they are living off someone else's tzedaka. If you are giving to their parent to hand over, maybe they think the parent is giving them the money, so they don't feel bad....

amother

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 7:58 am

Her sibling gives her the money. I believe that her sibling probably pushes her to get away cuz she and her kids need it. She doesn't know all the people that are giving money monthly to said sibling.

That sense of entitlement that it's becoming to her gets me. I know I'm overly judgmental. (I am not free of life problems. I know the feeling of needing to get away.) Just wanted to vent here secretly so that I don't vent to people IRL.

zohar

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:17 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If she's getting the money from her sibling and he/she is pushing her to take a vacation, in her eyes it would be disrespectful and being unappreciative not to take the vacation. In that case, I see no entitlement.

amother

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:49 am

zohar wrote:

Her siblings are giving her the money from a whole collection of people giving them money. They are not well off in any way. She is entitled and wants the vacations. Her siblings agree with her that she needs it.

ShishKabob

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:04 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

Anyone who gives to a person who has money for luxuries the donor can't afford and doesn't resent it is either a saint or should have her head examined Very Happy

I don't care about comparing theoretical levels of "stress" or whatever - if someone needs money because they have no money for rent they have no business spending money on even a modest vacation. Where in the world do people get the idea that a "vacation" that costs money is necessary for the emotional well being of a poor fragile soul. Growing up my family didn't take "vacations" that cost money - I.e. that entailed airplanes or hotel visits or eating in restaurants. I remember reminiscing with my cousin after he had taken his children to Disney World (he is a doctor) about how we would never even thought about our going there as children - it would have been inconceivable even to ask Laugh

I am just using that as an example that it wasn't normal for our families to spend money on vacations. Very Happy

I am sure my parents would have loved to "get away" - when the children were grown and out of the house, they had more money and did start traveling on "real" vacations - to Europe, Israel, Hawaii etc.so this was a luxury that they went without because they had mortgages, tuition, car expenses, clothing, food and other necessities.

Like others posted unless it is giving spare change to a beggar on the street or knowing someone is destitute and delivering groceries or clothing for the children, I give to organizations and I have no guilt that I am not funding luxury lifestyles for people who have stupid economic priorities and avoid these kinds of situations in which I would feel horribly used and stupid.

Yes I am judgmental - so be it.

I hope that you at least feel better now!

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:17 am

In my books, anyone who shamelessly asks other people to sponsor their vacation is a real nebach. They might seem savvy in some ways, but bottom line it's not something that normal people do. So I would tell myself that the kids of these nebach people don't need to suffer, so my money is going to buy them food and shelter and clothing.

I have to say that this thread made me appreciate the fact that I donate to a local community fund, run by people whom I trust and respect. The money goes strictly for basics like rent payment and credit for food on local stores. But I'm glad I don't know who the recipients are, because it's so easy to judge and resent their choices.

amother

Tan

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:26 am

Sounds like she knows she can rely on her siblings. If her siblings are willing to sponsor vacations I would assume they will chip in if you stop and she needs help with rent and food bills. So why don't you use the money for other causes that you feel more comfortable with? Or at least cut back on the amount? I do understand you feel being taken advantage of.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:48 am

OP, there are too many worthwhile charities, and too many people in real need, to continue giving to someone whom you don't want to give to.

Don't leave them in the lurch. Send a note with a last contribution, saying that you will not be able to provide tzedaka for them any longer, but wish them hatzlacha. Ze hu.

Give to the rabbi's discretionary fund. Or to the American Heart Association. Or to Masbia. Or to whomever else you want.

amother

Puce

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 11:50 am

zohar wrote:

The recipient of the tzedaka could easily tell her helpful sister that other people in the community are giving her money and it won't look very nice if she takes a vacation.

southernbubby

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 12:28 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

There may be halachic ramifications if the money has already been pledged. Was there any sort of agreement regarding how much and for how long? What about plans to make the couple self-supporting? Anything in the works or is this forever?

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 1:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I committed to x amount of money a month. I'm assuming it's until she gets remarried? An end date wasn't discussed. She's separated
Getting divorced. Has a few (older) kids. (She works. But very very part time.)

To whom did you commit?

Nothing is forever. Just tell them that you're no longer able to do it. If they ask why, say you're not comfortable disclosing such private information, but you're no longer able to do it. End.

ora_43

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 1:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

For me, that changes things.

As far as she knows, the only person she gets money from thinks this is a reasonable expense. In that situation - it makes sense that she'd take the vacation.

And she's not doing the things that would scream "taking advantage" - not overspending on the vacation (putting aside the question of whether the vacation itself is justified), and not trying to hide the fact that she takes these vacations.

Also relevant, IMO - are the vacations expensive relative to her rent? Eg are we talking a $3,000 vacation and then asking for help paying $1000 rent, or vice versa?

If the vacations are expensive relative to her rent, I'd give the sibling a heads up. Gently suggest that this doesn't look good to donors, and that she/they might want to do things differently.

If the vacations are just a fraction of the expenses she needs covered, maybe try looking at it as a an alternative to therapy. By those standards, it's probably a very reasonable expense.

ora_43

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 1:57 pm

Honestly, to me the bigger deal would be the indefinite commitment + her working very part time. Is there any plan to help her become more independent?

(I'm not saying she's doing anything wrong right now, but it sounds like the expectation is that you'll be paying even years from now, if she's not married. Even if she could be earning more. That sounds like a recipe for resentment.)

Cheiny

Wed, Aug 21 2019, 3:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

How can I learn not to be bothered by someone who I give money to monthly (without her knowing it's coming from me) when she jets off more than once a year on vacation? (Even if it's only a basic one.)

What type of vacation? Did they fly on a plane? Pay for a hotel? Or was it more local, a car trip, etc.?