My 7 yr old is getting out of control

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amother

Oak

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I tell him all the time how much I love him, I call him zeeskeit all the time. I'm almost always gentle yet firm with my responses. Whenever he's in his "Dr. Jekyll" mode I give him all the praise and attention that I can. It hurts me SO much that despite all that I do, and want to do and give to him when "Mr. Hyde" comes out and he literally spits in my face, bites me and calls me "idiot" but I try my best to ignore it, while not letting my other children think that what he's doing is acceptable. I know that overall I'm doing the "right things" because I see it in my other children B"H. I know I'm not meant to be my children's "best friend" and that consequences are for his own benefit, but other than trying to break up the conditions for his "storms" which is becoming more difficult the fewer things he's wiling to eat and try--and I spoke to his pediatrician who said that I don't have to make him special suppers but if he's hungry he has to make it himself. The issue is that there are very few kosher breads where we live and they don't sell the chocolate spread that he likes (we've tried nutella) and we have to get it from bigger cities or order it in bulk, its not something that we can just let him do ad infinitum. He used to like tuna, but now he told me he doesn't like it anymore. If a sibling chooses supper and he doesn't like it, he's likely to throw a tantrum. I've figured it out that he has a lot of pent-up worry and fear and thoughts and I'm like "just talk to me and we can work it out" and that does often help but he has this thought stuck on his head that "I will never listen to him". But its like a roller coaster, it starts as the obnoxious, being rude, cheppering his siblings, and he gets me caught up in the banter (its often on the way home from school), and when I finally realize what's going on, getting him to eat something appropriate and go to the bathroom or talk about the problem things get better, but like yesterday he was "starving" and cheppering everyone to the point where I couldn't get supper going b/c he was being a monster--bothering everyone, not letting his brother do his homework so I had to stop what I was doing. Finally, when supper was on the table we were able to let him out of his room and he ate and he was calm again.

This is very concerning. You need to prioritize his food intake. Do whatever it takes to be very proactive about making sure he eats on a regular schedule- with snacks- and even if his preferred foods keep changing. Locking him in his room while he's dysregulated from hunger is very traumatic and can make everything worse. As the mother, you need to be responsible for his food intake.

I disagree with your pediatrician- he is not mature enough to be responsible for his meals. Work with your son to find foods he likes, and stay on top of it, so he doesn't have a chance to "lose it" like he's been doing. Eventually, as he matures, he will be able to sense what his needs are and what his body is telling him. But for now, you need to do it for him.

amother

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:27 am

mha3484 wrote:

OP, I have a 5 year old who likes to threaten to hurt people when he does not get his way. Physically he is a big boy. I said above that he gets aggressive and even runs. I can really understand a lot of what your feeling.

For my own child, he is desperately seeking to control his environment because to him it feels so out of control. I know what sets him off and we are working on it (Older child with severe ADHD) but a lot of what you describe sounds like your son is really struggling with anxiety. Anxiety in children often manifests like ODD and ADHD. The picky eating also fits in because its a way he can exert control over his environment. Kids have so little control over their lives that one of the few things they can control is food. If you can get an evaluation for anxiety I would do that.

At his annual physical his pediatrician told us that we could pursue that route but that as long as things continue to be manageable based on the behavior management plan we have we can leave it alone, and since that appointment in the summer, but then we have days like yesterday when I'm ready to lose it. I'm at the point of is a psychologist enough for him to talk out his problems, or do I need a psychiatrist? He hates doctors--he thinks that they all give shots--he's a pretty healthy kid B"H so mostly his exposure to doctors is going for his annual check up which usually involves shots. I have mentioned to him that if theses behaviors continue that we will have to go see a "doctor" because the way he is talking/behaving is NOT ok. I've been seeing advertisements for this homeopathic treatment called Brillia, I'm tempted to try it, but I see that its not recommended for those who are lactose intolerant, while he's never been diagnosed, we've stopped giving him regular milk b/c we suspected a sensitivity. He has said that regular milk doesn't bother him, but I'm skeptical b/c its hard to know when to believe him (his tantrums were MUCH worse until we took him off of regular milk) but he does eat cheese, pudding and yogurt without problem.

mha3484

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:33 am

I give my older kid with ADHD magnesium and its fantastic for his mood. If you like more natural methods its worth a try. Blue bonnet makes a liquid fruity flavor with a hechsure. Solgar also makes one. If you have a local whole foods or health food store its easy to find. Additude magazine for ADHD talks about it.

I like the explosive child method because it has you prioritize your issues and shelve the less important ones. It also really helps to focus on your relationship and avoid power struggles.

You can start with a psychologist and go from there. A good child psych will tell you when a MD is needed.

amother

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:40 am

The tricky thing will be finding someone where we live that is aware enough of Judaism to understand the cultural values, language and religious principles while staying "anonymous" enough in our small town.

amother

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:43 am

mha3484 wrote:

About the magnesium, we're not quite at swallowing pills yet, we've tried, is there a children's version of magnesium?

mha3484

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:45 am

I know I am in a larger Midwest community and stretch myself to send my ADHD kid to a frum therapist for that reason. What do other parents in your community do for kids that need extra assistance?

mha3484

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:46 am

Yes! The ones I mentioned are liquid and kosher certified.

amother

Ruby

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don't think this is as complicated as you think it is. Child psychologists are well trained to incorporate cultural norms when evaluating and treating patients. Please pursue this route.

amother

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 11:57 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

I don't think this is as complicated as you think it is. Child psychologists are well trained to incorporate cultural norms when evaluating and treating patients. Please pursue this route.

As much as I *know* that in theory, in practicality I've seen and experienced otherwise. Also just in terms of who my son will feel comfortable with.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 12:09 pm

Sounds like a classic case of PANDAS. Even if negative culture.

My daughter was cultured more than 10 times in 6 months and every singe time was negative. But a blood test showed elevated strep antibodies, as well as other infections, and she was diagnosed and treated. BH she is doing so much better since being treated and does not act this way anymore.

#BestBubby

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 12:13 pm

OP, how does your son behave in school? Does he listen to the Rebbe?

amother

Ruby

Fri, Sep 13 2019, 2:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

As much as I *know* that in theory, in practicality I've seen and experienced otherwise. Also just in terms of who my son will feel comfortable with.

For an evaluation? Start with that, and then you can work on finding a good match for therapy if you want. You don't need a good shidduch for an evaluation, you need someone who is very skilled in evaluating.

Rappel

Sat, Sep 14 2019, 10:59 am

OP, this sounds very difficult. I have no advice, but I appreciate your sharing your challenge with us. If you could please keep us updated, then I would like to hear how your situation develops, and what helped your son adjust in the end. Chin up - beezrat Hashem, you will find a solution, it's only a matter of time.

FranticFrummie

Sat, Sep 14 2019, 11:40 am

OP, my heart breaks for you and your son!

Have you had him officially screened for ASD and ADHD? He seriously needs a diagnosis, even if just to rule things out. A blood test for PANDAS is also in order.

YouTube gamers swear like sailors. I'm surprised he hasn't come up with much more unpleasant language by now. Watching videos really needs to stop NOW.

Minecraft is only as good as the platform. If he's playing with others, there can be some very nasty social interaction. If he's on a private realm, then he's safe.

I absolutely wouldn't let anyone near Fortnite until they were at least 14 or 15, and even then only if they were extremely socially adjusted. The level of language in multiplayer is very toxic. DD is rather street smart, and there have been times when she's had to log out and walk away. These days she only plays with her best friend, and doesn't go on the public servers anymore.

Personally, I would cut off all computer use except single player Minecraft. Everything else is not healthy for a child that young. I would also be very careful with TV and videos, because he seems to be extremely impressionable.

The suggestion for Magnesium is a good one, as well as a gummy multivitamin. There are some good kosher ones on iHerb.

Have you tried giving DS caffeine? My DD has ADD, and she finds that if she drinks coffee or a Red Bull in the morning, her school work is so much easier and she a lot more focused. It doesn't make her feel the least bit jittery, anxious, or hyper - which is a pretty sure sign that someone has ADD if they react that way to stimulants. I just look at her and say "How can you do that without your heart exploding?" and she says "It doesn't bother me at all."

Please, don't let people tell you "It's just normal." You know your son better than anyone else. You know he's not normal, and he's not happy. Keep trying everything you can, and don't give up. Start with ruling out as much medical stuff as you can, and go from there.

And don't forget to daven!

Last edited by FranticFrummie on Sat, Sep 14 2019, 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Rappel

Sat, Sep 14 2019, 11:47 am

Please excuse my simplistic interpretation: Putting aside the complications of ADHD... Is it possible that when your son is good, he doesn't get enough focused one-on-one attention from you?

amother

Aquamarine

Sat, Sep 14 2019, 9:21 pm

OP, this sounds like you are describing my son! BH we have come a long way.... still a work in progress... here are some things that have helped/ are helping us:
Collaborative problem solving method (Ross Greene)
Eliminating wheat, sugar, food coloring from his diet
Chaya Stark's parenting workshop for challenging kids
Methyl B12 for mood
Culturelle for gut issues which decreased anger and mood swings drastically.
The book "The Fear Fix" (Sarah chana Radcliffe) for his anxieties
Treating Pandas
Music lessons
The book "Misdiagnoses and dual diagnoses of gifted children"
And lots more....
B'Hatzlacha on this long crazy journey!!!!

amother

Aquamarine

Sat, Sep 14 2019, 9:22 pm

Oh, and lots of tears, and davening!!!!

me01

Sat, Sep 14 2019, 9:29 pm

Assuming you ruled out possible traumas, as a psychologist and having seen many such children, it sounds like something neurological is going on. Extreme behavior problems, erratic and severe rage attacks (that don't respond to behavioral interventions or logic) and separation anxiety in children often are due to an organic cause. The urinary accidents and sudden eating changes also seem to support this. Though you didn't mention much about the physical, sometimes these children will complain of leg, head or stomach pains, have difficulty sleeping, have consistent congestion, experience nightmares or irrational fears, strange movements, poor handwriting, bed wetting and/or eyes that look very tired or sick (puffy, dark under-circles, enlarged pupils) during these times.
We know that healthy, typical children want to be good and in control if they are able. I am sure your little son is very scared by his reactions, which of course he has no way of explaining or recognizing; heck, even the adults around him best can't understand it so how should he? Often children in these situations, like us, will try come up with reasons for their behavior or tell you it's on purpose when in actuality, unbeknownst to them (and us, sadly), their brains are not well. My motto is "always look inside first". We must ensure that we're not missing something health related that can't be seen. I would advise you to look further into possible brain inflammation, through *blood* tests for strep, Lyme, celiac, food allergies, immune dysfunctions and general inflammation. (The presence of possible seizures and other brain anomalies may also need to be explored.) Sometimes trialing an antibiotic is useful to see if this is due to underlying infectious triggers that can't be readily identified. The other course of action would be to see a psychologist (but you said that was not helpful) and then finally you can see a psychiatrist and trial a psychiatric medication. I would advise to go the medical (nonpsychiatric) route first, considering the risk-benefit ratio of each. Dr. Susan Schulman may be a good resource.
For some reason that I don't understand, looking for medical cause for several behavior sounds like a novel idea for many, but it is only logical and I have seen it to be true over and over again. After all, remember, the brain is the organ responsible for behaviors, mood, inhibition and reasoning and if these are impaired your child can be nerologically quite ill.
Hatzlocha! This is so so challenging. In the time being, give your child the benefit of the doubt and try to see it from another lens. You are his only true advocate and he needs you more than ever now to believe in his innate goodness and uncover any possible cause that is taking away his happiness and, very possibly, his health.
Feel to pm if you like for more about my experience with this.

Here are some informational resources that may be helpful to you and others open to learning more about PANDAS/Autoimmune Encephalitis in specific. We are seeing a real increase of this, as well as all autoimmune and psychiatric like issues in children.

http://rbsmedical.com/index.ph.....dren/

Pandasnetwork.org

https://www.neuroimmune.org/sw.....swedo

http://www.neuroimmune.org/kov.....cevic

https://healthfreedomidaho.org.....t-out

https://abc.go.com/shows/2020/.....andas

amother

Khaki

Sun, Sep 15 2019, 5:14 am

My 7 year old sounds so similar to yours. I just wanted to humbly suggest that it sounds like you are letting yourself get pulled into power struggles and non-age-appropriate overly detailed discussions with him. Your son is 7. When he says he wants xyz, you can say, sorry sheifele, I said no. No logical reasoning necessary, and you see it doesn't help anyway.
A great therapist suggested to me joining with your kid in fantasy. "Wow, wouldn't you love to drive around in a fancy car? Which part would you like about it? We could drive in it together..." Get animated. Giving what he wants in fantasy can really build your connection with him and "disarm" him. At the end, you can give a quick disclaimer, "of course this was just for pretend, totty and I are ok with the car we have right now"
As far as where he is getting the language from, that comes from school, unfortunately. It's par for the course. Ignore it, don't let it get a rise out of you.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Sep 15 2019, 5:14 am

Also, theparentingpassageway.com is great for age appropriate discipline.

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