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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Purple
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 Wed, Sep 18 2019, 3:31 pm
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Schools can spread awareness but to demand is going over the top.
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amother
Hotpink
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 3:32 pm
| amother [ Navy ] wrote: | | I think it’s nuts to tell the teacher what head covering to wear. What if she’s struggling financially and only has that one wig as an option? |
Do you think its a reasonable expectation that a teacher should come the classroom as free from personal distractions as possible?
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amother
Firebrick
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 3:34 pm
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I wouldn't put this in that category. And no, I wouldn't take this sort of complaint from my daughter seriously. Some girls just like to get overly dramatic and wind themselves up. It comes with the teenage territory.
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amother
Linen
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 3:35 pm
Stop making up teacher policies. I have never heard of them banning fancy hats or teichel or trendy highlites. Name the schools that have these policies.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 3:38 pm
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | | Stop making up teacher policies. I have never heard of them banning fancy hats or teichel or trendy highlites. Name the schools that have these policies. |
I don’t mind if you disagree with the premise of this thread or with my issues. But do not call me a liar. I don't make things up.
And sure. Bnos Malka of Queens and Bnos Yisroel of Baltimore - no hats, no tichels, no ponytail wigs (one sefardi teacher got an ok to wear a hat but otherwise it is a hard and fast rule). Every chabad school everywhere.
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ssspectacular
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:41 pm
| amother [ Firebrick ] wrote: | | I wouldn't put this in that category. And no, I wouldn't take this sort of complaint from my daughter seriously. Some girls just like to get overly dramatic and wind themselves up. It comes with the teenage territory. |
Teenage girls are going to discuss their teachers no matter what they wear. I also think OP is overreacting. It doesn't sound like a serious complaint. Is her daughter overly sensitive in general? Otherwise, it's just teenage shtick.
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amother
Linen
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:44 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | I don’t mind if you disagree with the premise of this thread or with my issues. But do not call me a liar. I don't make things up.
And sure. Bnos Malka of Queens and Bnos Yisroel of Baltimore - no hats, no tichels, no ponytail wigs (one sefardi teacher got an ok to wear a hat but otherwise it is a hard and fast rule). Every chabad school everywhere. |
I taught in 2 chabad schools, so your rules are not every chabad school everywhere.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 5:02 pm
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | | I taught in 2 chabad schools, so your rules are not every chabad school everywhere. |
Ok.
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amother
Khaki
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 5:06 pm
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I’m an adult and this annoys me to. I’ve been having a conversation with one too many women who constantly have to flick their bangs away from their eyes. It’s an every second thing that is sooooo distracting. Like why do Jewish women feel the need to have bangs so low down??
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eschaya
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 5:08 pm
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. As it is, there are so many "rules" about head coverings, especially in more yeshivish schools. So if a woman is not allowed to wear a hat, a tichel, a pony sheitel, a long sheitel... and now you don't want it to be short or have side bangs (because they can potentially fall in front of the face), what is she supposed to wear? Yes, I suppose she could do a synthetic "helmet" type wig that doesn't move. And you keep suggesting bobby pins, but this may not be an option for all sheitels; the high end ones are more apt to act like real hair, but those without super natural fronts and sides may have incorporated layers or bangs to hide a less than perfect hairline, and I know that at least for me, if I pin my sheitel back, I have very pronounced "sideburns" and it looks bad and awkward to see my actual hair sticking out very conspicuously. Then also keep in mind that girls in middle school and high school tend to analyze and rip apart every female teacher's appearance. So it is (unfortunately) important that a teacher be at least mildly put together and in style, unless she wants to bear the brutal critique of teenage girls. So maybe teachers prefer to wear sheitels in which they look and feel attractive, even if it means the annoying hair-in-face-phenomenon, rather than face the cruelty of teenage girls who will snicker about a fake looking sheitel or exposed "peyos".
She will have to deal with annoyances for the rest of her life. Teach her now to overlook or find coping mechanisms to deal with tics and annoying mannerisms.
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amother
Gray
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 5:11 pm
is this really about being upset that the school only allows sheitels and not other head coverings? is that part of this reaction? And/Or is this your oldest daughter/child? Is she struggling in school?
Just never really heard of critiquing a teacher's sheitel in a girls school and I had thought I'd heard it all by now.
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amother
Honeydew
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 7:41 pm
| eschaya wrote: | Sorry, but this is ridiculous. As it is, there are so many "rules" about head coverings, especially in more yeshivish schools. So if a woman is not allowed to wear a hat, a tichel, a pony sheitel, a long sheitel... and now you don't want it to be short or have side bangs (because they can potentially fall in front of the face), what is she supposed to wear? Yes, I suppose she could do a synthetic "helmet" type wig that doesn't move. And you keep suggesting bobby pins, but this may not be an option for all sheitels; the high end ones are more apt to act like real hair, but those without super natural fronts and sides may have incorporated layers or bangs to hide a less than perfect hairline, and I know that at least for me, if I pin my sheitel back, I have very pronounced "sideburns" and it looks bad and awkward to see my actual hair sticking out very conspicuously. Then also keep in mind that girls in middle school and high school tend to analyze and rip apart every female teacher's appearance. So it is (unfortunately) important that a teacher be at least mildly put together and in style, unless she wants to bear the brutal critique of teenage girls. So maybe teachers prefer to wear sheitels in which they look and feel attractive, even if it means the annoying hair-in-face-phenomenon, rather than face the cruelty of teenage girls who will snicker about a fake looking sheitel or exposed "peyos".
She will have to deal with annoyances for the rest of her life. Teach her now to overlook or find coping mechanisms to deal with tics and annoying mannerisms. |
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amother
Scarlet
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 8:36 pm
I hear the issue, but I am also having an adverse reaction to the suggestion. First of all, teenage girls will always find something to be distracted by. My students have told me (after graduating) how extensively they examine my wardrobe and how a new sheitel was a huge hock topic for days, and if I’m behind honest, my wardrobe is really not exciting. So is it the responsibility of teachers to make sure they are as visually not distracting as possible? I don’t think so. And I am a teacher who loves her students and gives as much as possible to help my students in every way.
There’s a lot of talk about holding teachers to the same standards as the students in terms of dress code. I fundamentally disagree. I take great issue with the point, but I’m just going to focus on one aspect of that.
I have students with a wide variety of issues, annoying behaviors, physical differences, emotional health problems etc. They are all precious, lovable neshamos and I do everything I can to make sure they know that’s how I feel about them. I spend my working hours and my own time investing in these growing, struggling human beings.
I also wear a wig that I need to flip the hair out of my face pretty often. Because I like it. I’m a woman and a person and I feel that I’m well within the boundaries and even sensitivities of tznius.
I would feel badly knowing that it might distract some of my students. But I sincerely hope that my modeling of tolerance, acceptance, and love of every person, speaks louder than my sheitel flipping.
Helping kids doesn’t mean paving the way so that everything is easy. It’s helping them gain perspective and coping skills to deal with life’s difficulties, big and small.
By the way, this is not directed at the OP, who I thought worded her post in as non threatening a way as possible. But this definitely made me more self conscious as a teacher, and leaves me with a feeling that perfection is required in so many areas to be a good teacher, and perfectionism is not something I strive for. I’ll accept that I’m imperfect in this way, and focus my efforts and sacrifice for my students in areas that I feel will benefit them more in the long run.
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amother
Scarlet
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 8:43 pm
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Simple1
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 8:46 pm
Of all the complaints my girls have had on their teachers, shaitels never came up.
But another PSA, I think I've heard that hair over the eye can damage your eyesight by weakening that eye.
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amother
Babyblue
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Wed, Sep 18 2019, 9:55 pm
| amother [ Scarlet ] wrote: | I hear the issue, but I am also having an adverse reaction to the suggestion. First of all, teenage girls will always find something to be distracted by. My students have told me (after graduating) how extensively they examine my wardrobe and how a new sheitel was a huge hock topic for days, and if I’m behind honest, my wardrobe is really not exciting. So is it the responsibility of teachers to make sure they are as visually not distracting as possible? I don’t think so. And I am a teacher who loves her students and gives as much as possible to help my students in every way.
There’s a lot of talk about holding teachers to the same standards as the students in terms of dress code. I fundamentally disagree. I take great issue with the point, but I’m just going to focus on one aspect of that.
I have students with a wide variety of issues, annoying behaviors, physical differences, emotional health problems etc. They are all precious, lovable neshamos and I do everything I can to make sure they know that’s how I feel about them. I spend my working hours and my own time investing in these growing, struggling human beings.
I also wear a wig that I need to flip the hair out of my face pretty often. Because I like it. I’m a woman and a person and I feel that I’m well within the boundaries and even sensitivities of tznius.
I would feel badly knowing that it might distract some of my students. But I sincerely hope that my modeling of tolerance, acceptance, and love of every person, speaks louder than my sheitel flipping.
Helping kids doesn’t mean paving the way so that everything is easy. It’s helping them gain perspective and coping skills to deal with life’s difficulties, big and small.
By the way, this is not directed at the OP, who I thought worded her post in as non threatening a way as possible. But this definitely made me more self conscious as a teacher, and leaves me with a feeling that perfection is required in so many areas to be a good teacher, and perfectionism is not something I strive for. I’ll accept that I’m imperfect in this way, and focus my efforts and sacrifice for my students in areas that I feel will benefit them more in the long run. |
I couldn't just like this, this is exactly what I feel as a teacher!
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Amarante
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Thu, Sep 19 2019, 10:47 am
I hadn't thought about this for years but I had a teacher in high school who would embarrass me by putting a huge metal clip in my hair or bangs because she felt it was hanging in my eyes. Thanks for unblocking that terrible memory 
As for the original post, it's hard to believe that this mannerism is so distracting that a student's ability to learn and listen is impacted negatively. Looking back I had teachers with all kinds of personal mannerisms and the mannerisms weren't a negative. In fact, often they made them more loveable as we would have a lot of fun imitating their expressions. My mother and I had the same teacher (we went to the same high school) and my mother and I would laugh about how the teacher was still doing some of her unique things 30 years later
Treading into the minefield lightly but I think there is a rule of reason in terms of LH. People talk about people all the time - discussing and observing people is one of the most interesting aspects of the human experience. Great art - books, films and art is about the observation of the human condition. There are so many things which are dependent on discussing other people - how does one actually operate in the real world if one can't discuss aspects of a person.
As long as such discussion and observation isn't mean spirited or done to harm in some way, why is it bad - especially in terms of private discussions between family members.
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amother
Chocolate
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Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:00 am
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Op, I appreciate your post. Im an elementary school kodesh teacher. My sheitel is such that when its freshly styled its away from my face. But as it begins to fall I have to put bobby pins in it. Occasionally im in a rush and dont bother, 7but seeing this I will make more of a consistent effort.
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amother
Chocolate
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Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:06 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | I don’t mind if you disagree with the premise of this thread or with my issues. But do not call me a liar. I don't make things up.
And sure. Bnos Malka of Queens and Bnos Yisroel of Baltimore - no hats, no tichels, no ponytail wigs (one sefardi teacher got an ok to wear a hat but otherwise it is a hard and fast rule). Every chabad school everywhere. |
I would amend that to MOST Chabad schools.
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