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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
DH is a BT who hasn't integrated into yeshivish culture
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 8:43 pm
My dh does that too, with female neighbors etc. It doesn't bother me. One thing I told him is don't call female neighbors by their first names- call them mrs. So and so.

As long as it's appropriate and not creepy, it's actually a good thing- it means he can treat women as humans, not species to be avoided at all costs. It shows he values their opinions, experiences etc.
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familyfirst




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 8:49 pm
Well that’s a different situation

Dad inserting himself into female daughter’s froend’s Conversations (and pulling up a chair..) is actually ... (insert word- funny, strange, weird, and creepy). Not sure I’d be balky sending my daughter there either.

This is not a BT issue. Just explain that in tosay’s Culture that’s not acceptable. End of discussion.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:05 pm
I think it's socially acceptable for dads to chat in a friendly but not creepy way with their teen daughters' friends, in general American society.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:11 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think it's socially acceptable for dads to chat in a friendly but not creepy way with their teen daughters' friends, in general American society.


No. That would annoy kids over a certain age (10?) across the board.

Can you think of other examples?
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:11 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think it's socially acceptable for dads to chat in a friendly but not creepy way with their teen daughters' friends, in general American society.


Maybe it's accepted, but for whatever reason, the way your dh is doing it is making them uncomfortable. I agree with other posters that this sounds more like he's not getting certain social cues than anything related to his being a BT.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:13 pm
My dad chatted with my friends and I was fine with it.

Yes, I have many more examples, but am going to bow out of this thread since I don't think people are understanding what I'm saying.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:26 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think it's socially acceptable for dads to chat in a friendly but not creepy way with their teen daughters' friends, in general American society.


It is done all the time in my culture too (Israeli). But we are not yeshivish.

That's a tough one, op. I am sorry your dh isn't listening to your daughters' needs. It is wrong to send them to a certain school with a certain type of girl, and then act in ways that scare their friends off.

Maybe a rabbi or a therapist? Have the girls discussed this with him, and explained how their friends have stopped coming?

The problem isn't BT clueless, the problem is that he is being super insensitive (if your girls made him aware of the problem).
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:38 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My dad chatted with my friends and I was fine with it.

Yes, I have many more examples, but am going to bow out of this thread since I don't think people are understanding what I'm saying.


I do understand what you're saying, and I think you're right to be concerned about how it may be affecting your kids. However, if your efforts at communicating this are unsuccessful and he won't talk to a mentor, it's hard to think of an effective response. I do think that everyone should have a mentor, but it's especially crucial for a BT. Would he humor you and sit down with a rav together?
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 11:53 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
One example: in our community men and women don't have extended friendly conversations with each other unless they're related. My DH doesn't get that, and he's a friendly guy. When my kids' friends come over, DH loves to shmooze with them. It was sort of okay when they were little, but now most of my girls are teenagers, and it makes them and their friends really uncomfortable! I don't mean that he's creepy. He's definitely not shmoozing in a gross way. He's just friendly and will sit there asking them all kinds of questions about how school's going and stuff. If he's home and they're having a snack, he'll sit down with the girls and their friends and chat! And when he's driving carpool he'll insert himself into their conversations and give his own opinions and even give them mussar if they're saying lashon hara. It's really embarrassing for my girls. He doesn't get it and thinks we're being overly sensitive. Some of my girls' friends have stopped coming to the house because of him.


This can have nothing to do with being yeshivish. Bein Adam Lacheviro - this makes your daughter's friends uncomfortable. Does it matter why?

If you make the reason a yeshivish reason it can backfire. Why can't you just talk about the girl's uncomfortability?
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amother
Natural


 

Post Sat, Sep 21 2019, 11:55 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My dad chatted with my friends and I was fine with it.

Yes, I have many more examples, but am going to bow out of this thread since I don't think people are understanding what I'm saying.


I understand - my parent's were BT's. Most of my friend's parents are BT's. I grew up OOT town where there were different norms. And I myself have a lot of trouble understanding and keeping up with the nuances and find them frustrating too - and I'M a FFB technically!
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 12:04 am
This is not a frum thing

Any man who is talking to a girl to the point of her being uncomfortable- FOR WHATEVER REASON (I don't care if you think they are too sheltered or too prudish etc) needs to stop. End of story.

He can say hello. He can chat for a minute. But to tbe point where friends aren't coming over? That's too much


As an aside, yes parents embarrass their children. But when a parent refuses to try a little bit to stop embarrassing their children then that is a great way to ruin a relationship
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amother
Oak


 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 12:44 am
I agree it's not necessarily a yeshivish issue. I didn't grow up frum, and I remember complaining to my dad about the exact same thing. He's a friendly guy, and didn't see a reason not to chat with my friends and me. But I remember saying it makes me uncomfortable and we'd like some privacy. I think he did give us more space, to some extent at least. I think you should tell him it's making the girls uncomfortable when a father joins them.
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EsaEinai




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 2:03 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My dad chatted with my friends and I was fine with it.

Yes, I have many more examples, but am going to bow out of this thread since I don't think people are understanding what I'm saying.


My kids are preteens and my husband does the same thing. It doesn’t bother me too much, but I understand how you feel. I can’t get him to change so I don’t bother. I don’t think we can really ever get them to change. As another poster said, we just have to learn to accept them for so they are.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 2:12 am
while it may be even more highlighted living in a yeshivish community this is not a frum thing
its a a personality and parenting thing

didn't grow up frum and no one did this and we wouldn't have liked it if they did

I imagine he thinks he is just getting a window into his daughter's world but if they and their friends do not like it perhaps you can make that clear to him and he can adjust accordingly.

many relationships of children and parents have to negotiate the teenage years and modify and change accordingly like many developmental stages.

hatzlocha
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 2:15 am
OP, I think this can be framed differently to get through to him. I'm a non-conformist in many ways but I still avoid situations that would make other people uncomfortable. If he's costing his daughters their friends, he needs to be mindful about the effect his behavior is having. It's not rocket science.

As to whether this is normal in secular culture or not, I'm not going to contest your own experience. I was reminded of this sketch Jimmy Fallon did for a while called "eww", where he and his celebrity guest played teenage girls discussing everything that was eww, and they always end with a stepdad character trying to hang with them and them screaming "eww". (You can find them on YouTube.) Whether it's accepted sometimes, it's also perfectly normal for teenage girls to not want to hang with adult men. Men generally have no interest in spending too much time with teenage girls so it shouldn't be so hard for him to stop trying. Unless the other examples are very different, this sounds more like a "not being very considerate" issue than a "not acting frum enough" issue.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 5:07 am
You can view the greeting her friends either way. But inserting yourself into the girls' conversation to give mussar and be an active participant would only pass muster if it was the hostess's mother and even so would be very annoying and odd. I had a few friends whose mothers were trying to vicariously live through their teenage daughter's social life and it just came across as weird. Way more so if it had been the father. Nobody liked to hang out at those girls' homes.
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 7:36 am
I think when you talk fo him about this, your message needs to be "DD is uncomfortable," not "it's not yeshivish."

Maybe you want to help DD write him a respectfully worded letter.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Sep 22 2019, 8:33 am
sounds like she is your oldest
yes as poster said I would reframe this as a parenting teenager issue having nothing to do with yeshivish or religion or culture.
hopefully then he could hear you and DD and make the necessary changes to his behavior. You said he is sweet and caring so I would appeal to him and his nature at that level.
hatzlocha
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amother
Peach


 

Post Mon, Oct 07 2019, 11:57 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes, I have many more examples, but am going to bow out of this thread since I don't think people are understanding what I'm saying.



OP, I TOTALLY understand you, and whether its a BT thing or a social awkwardness, its not specifically the talking, its the facial expressions, and the length of time, and sitting at the table w the girls, etc. its a matter of degree and intensity.

A word here and there is fine, but it seems overdone, with too much enthusiasm, and past the boundaries of simple politeness, and more of too much interest, being questionable in perhaps a non frum home as well.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 07 2019, 12:52 pm
What about a mixed community, strong MO to light yeshivish? Or even larger?
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