Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Are we harming our children by segregating them?
Previous  1  2  3  4



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Jetblack


 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 1:33 pm
You can't really compare the secular world, where preventing pregnancy is the primary concern, with the frum world where the act itself is the problem and pregnancy is just an added risk.
Back to top

amother
cornflower


 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 1:51 pm
NurseK wrote:

In general I think the benfits of being segregated outweigh the risks.. the "risks" being some social ineptitude and the small fraction that go to the other extreme unfortunately.


You left out a huge one - loss of one's s-xuality.
Back to top

SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 1:53 pm
amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:
You can't really compare the secular world, where preventing pregnancy is the primary concern, with the frum world where the act itself is the problem and pregnancy is just an added risk.


Do you really think no one other than religious Jews care if their teens are engaging in premarital z3x?

No, they don't expect that their kids will remain celibate until marriage, particularly when marriage is in their late 20s or early 30s. But they also don't want their high school students to be z3xually active. If you watch This is Us, you'll see this. Deja is starting to see Malik, a teen father. Randall, Deja's father, says that there is no way his 14 year-old daughter is going out with a boy who puts babies in other girls.

Oh, and most kids age 15 to 18 have not had z3x.
Back to top

amother
Jetblack


 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 2:19 pm
Parental disapproval does not equal a societal taboo. Also, there is a lot of variation in how different types of actions are perceived.
Back to top

amother
Indigo


 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 2:51 pm
Rappel wrote:
For sure.

I grew up in a similar society, and it's not hard to spot where the eddies in the system lie. When basic instincts are social taboo, then teens are pushed to extreme behaviour which they never would have considered if they had had the proper guidance.

Completely anecdotal, but: when we first got married, we lived in one town (very hard-line religious, youth group was Ezra not Bnei Akiva, everything separate)where I couldn't help but notice that the kids were completely out of touch with their parents. Good families all, but Friday night, when imma and abba were tired at home after the seudah, the shadows on our walk home were full of clandestine meetings. It was completely taboo for these kids to interact in an upfront manner, so many found ways to do so secretly.

We now live in a town which has gender -segregated Bnei Akiva, and gender segregated schools and activities, but it's okay to socialize with other kids at home. And you know what? By age 8-10, the kids all drift apart into their separate genders. I keep odd hours, and I go wandering everywhere in town, and while I can't be certain that they don't exist, I haven't yet come across a couple in the dark. The kids here know how to talk to each other, but they don't want to, since their friends are the ones they hang out with in school and at Bnei Akiva, not the opposite gender. High school is mostly dorming out, but the teens come home for Shabbat, and They. Act. Normal. Not freaked-out hormone monsters. Not obsessed with the opposite gender. They chat with their close friends, spend time with their family, and zehu.

So which is more healthy? Which is more modest? I know what I think, and I think we're going to stay here.


Rappel, would you consider posting your location? For people considering aliyah (like us), thats the kind of place we're looking for. Or maybe you would PM me where you live? Thank you.


Last edited by amother on Wed, Dec 04 2019, 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 4:13 pm
boysrus wrote:
Rappel, would you consider posting your location? For people considering aliyah (like us), thats the kind of place we're looking for. Or maybe you would PM me where you live? Thank you.
boysrus, there are many many dati leumi communities just like this all over israel Smile
In some bnei akiva is mixed and others it is together, but the rest of what rappel wrote is exactly how it is.
Back to top

amother
Hotpink


 

Post Tue, Oct 29 2019, 5:37 pm
NurseK wrote:
Reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA
A guy goes around interviewing college aged boys and girls, asking if guys and girls could be just friends (no romantic or s*xual feelings). The guys mostly say no way and the girls say for sure. But then at the end he asks the girls- would the guy want to hook up if you would let him? and every girl says yes, probably. Hotpink, I wonder if you asked those guys what their thoughts were as you slept in the same bed if they would be honest with you... unless of course you were a kid (under puberty age)

In general I think the benfits of being segregated outweigh the risks.. the "risks" being some social ineptitude and the small fraction that go to the other extreme unfortunately.


I asked them. I'm very blunt so we discussed these things honestly. We talked about the possibility of one is us falling in love with the other and what we would and could do to prevent that. One of the guys said he didnt want to cuddle or hug for a long time because that's just reserved for his girlfriend. The other guy said physical pleasures weren't worth ruining our friendship.
And honestly it was such a nice feeling , I felt so safe knowing that they both just liked me for who I am and didn't want to have s-ex. It was really special and I kind of miss it.
I must say though that both guys came from quite messed up families (mother cheated on father, brother cheated on wife and thought that was an okay thing to do) and morals were quite important to them.
Back to top

princessleah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 30 2019, 9:49 am
I was listening to a podcast yesterday called "the joy of text" which is a podcast about Halacha and s-xuality. It is from a very MO perspective.
They had someone on who works in an MO school, and they were talking about the s-x education that is given to kids.
The basic gist of it is -- we certainly hope and expect that you will engage in behavior that is halachic. But if you don't, here is how to do so in ways that are ethical, safe, and without shame. The point being that so many kids throw out the baby with the bathwater-- if I'm breaking halacha anyways, may as well.... or they're not educated to know how to use birth control. Or they are filled with so much shame about breaking halacha that they treat each other like garbage because of that.

It was really interesting food for thought.
Back to top

amother
Royalblue


 

Post Wed, Oct 30 2019, 10:53 am
boysrus wrote:
Rappel, would you consider posting your location? For people considering aliyah (like us), thats the kind of place we're looking for. Or maybe you would PM me where you live? Thank you.

All DL communities are like this. The DL areas of RBS, Bet Shemesh, Modiin, Raanana, Efrat, Neve Daniel,Ramot in Jlem, etc...
Back to top

amother
Vermilion


 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 8:01 am
urban gypsy wrote:
Mennonites allow young men and women to mix freely without boundaries???


Well, there are different types of Mennonites, just like there are different types of Orthodox Jews:) I grew up in a more liberal family, part of a congregation where the older generation was still wearing cape dresses and coverings. When I was a girl, we still had to wear skirts to school, but by the time I was in high school, jeans were fine. It's hard to compare, because there are no halachot in Christianity, but I grew up sort of 2nd generation equivalent to Modern Orthodox:) The value system was still very old-school, but the "rules" had relaxed.

We were still VERY strictly anti premarital relations, but two girls in my class (of less than 100, boys and girls together) got pregnant senior year of high school.

And I don't know if I would say that there were no boundaries – there WERE. That was part of my original point. It's comparatively easy to keep frum boundaries – NO CONTACT is no contact. But when you start mixing classes, allowing friendships ... if a hug is okay ... it's very hard to tell where the boundary IS. For men and women. I know I had a lot of trouble, since (like most women), I wasn't raised to be particularly strong about my personal boundaries ... there was a lot of uncertainty and confusion for me about where the line was supposed to be. And, as young people, ANY physical contact fans the flame of hormones, and makes it that much more likely to "go all the way"! Of course, one could argue that better education about consent, etc. would solve some of this, and we SHOULD have that, also, FOR SURE. But I don't think it's that simple. I think the bottom line is that a clear no contact boundary makes it easy for everyone to tell what's right and wrong, and anything less is asking for problems.

Of course, as a giyoret, I am used to practically no one agreeing with me:) I'm not looking to argue, just giving my two cents as someone who has lived in different worlds.
Back to top

urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 9:39 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
Of course, as a giyoret, I am used to practically no one agreeing with me:) I'm not looking to argue, just giving my two cents as someone who has lived in different worlds.


I would never imagine that sharing your experience is open to my agreement/disagreement! Seriously, thank you so much for posting, it is much appreciated.
Back to top

amother
Vermilion


 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 9:44 am
urban gypsy wrote:
I would never imagine that sharing your experience is open to my agreement/disagreement! Seriously, thank you so much for posting, it is much appreciated.


Sorry, that last bit wasn't directed at you – I got to writing and forgot that I was responding to a specific person, lol!
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 10:07 am
SixOfWands wrote:


Oh, and most kids age 15 to 18 have not had z3x.


What about heavy petting, or other forms?
Back to top

urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 10:15 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
Sorry, that last bit wasn't directed at you – I got to writing and forgot that I was responding to a specific person, lol!


Hug Hug Hug
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 8:49 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
What about heavy petting, or other forms?


That is actually nice. More frum couples should do it (after they’re married, ofc).
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 8:52 pm
sequoia wrote:
That is actually nice. More frum couples should do it (after they’re married, ofc).


I didn't say it wasn't nice.
I was just wondering about the teens who abstain how fully they abstain.
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 31 2019, 9:44 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
I didn't say it wasn't nice.
I was just wondering about the teens who abstain how fully they abstain.


You’re either having zex or not.

Kissing/making out doesn’t mean “not abstaining.”

It’s a better process than shomer negiah to full zex in one hour.

People gradually discover what they like, figure out boundaries, and become comfortable with each other.

And it’s not just teens.
Back to top
Page 4 of 4 Previous  1  2  3  4 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Questions for published children books authors
by amother
1 Today at 2:46 am View last post
How to teach children not to talk to strangers
by amother
4 Yesterday at 3:49 pm View last post
Please don't bring babies or young children to megillah
by dena613
166 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 5:43 pm View last post
Any awesome instagram accts for moms of autistic children?
by amother
5 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 1:26 pm View last post
[ Poll ] If you have young children do you fast?
by amother
46 Wed, Mar 20 2024, 10:55 am View last post