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Forum -> Parenting our children
They starting to resent
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 11:19 am
How about getting an interesting english book (different for each kid because of their ages) and set aside 15 mins daily of one on one time when you're reading it to them. Include a few mins discussing what you've read with them, in English.
Or play games with them, but the rule is to speak English.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 11:25 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I Appreciate all responses.

it was really important to me @ this point to get guidance how to go about it, I feel its a certain sense (feeling) that gets picked up which can lead to unhealthy relationships or low self esteem in the children . I don't want that to happen . Like the other day I had with my 10 year old , his conversation re went very broken , I tried to correct him and he got affended just by me correcting him . So I guess I need the right tools how to approach this situation.



I don't want to say anything here that might be taken the wrong way by people that don't understand where you are coming from.
But please, drop the English for now, they will definitely pick it up.
English books all over the house is magic
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 11:30 am
Chayalle wrote:
OP, what is your primary language (what language do you think in)?

I heard this question addressed by Rabbi Noach Orloweck - a major mechanech whom I respect tremendously. He lives in E"Y and was asked this question by Americans living there, who want their kids to know Hebrew, but are more comfortable in English.

He unequivocally holds that parents must speak to their children in their primary language. He says it's healthiest for the parent/child relationship, which is of utmost importance in these times. Let the children pick up the other language on the street, in school, etc...but keep your relationship with your kids intact.

I would say drop the English for now, OP, and they will pick it up later.

I also think the best way to teach kids a language is by getting them to read! If you can get them interesting English books, they may enjoy that and pick up the language. I happen to speak Hebrew pretty well for an American, and besides for going to a High School that had Limudei Kodesh subjects taught in Hebrew, I had an Israeli roommate in seminary and I read all her novels/books in Hebrew. It was hard at first, but I got better and better at it. I would recommend this approach, if you can implement it.


Sorry I disagree. My oldest is hearing impaired, when he was younger he naturally gravitated toward visual cues rather than auditory. Every day was a battle but today he speaks and understands perfectly. If I would have used visual cues because that’s what he was comfortable with, he would not have any of the social interaction and integration that he has today.

The same was true when I sent him to yeshiva, our first language is English but for yeshiva he had to know Yiddish. People thought I was crazy for working on a new language when just getting him to speak instead of sign was a battle, but I did as other suggested, I spoke Yiddish, bought cds and books, hired a tutor, etc. and Bh he does so well in yeshiva today, without any support.

OP, you keep speaking in English and promote it in your household even if they answer in Yiddish.
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 11:32 am
If you're speaking English and they're speaking back in Yiddish, then you've already won half the battle.

It's well documented that even in fully bilingual households, children often don't start speaking the secondary language until puberty. They will hear, and understand, but they haven't fully developed the section of their brains which manages that second language enough to speak it.

Keep going, and don't worry -- any English they learn will be a gift for them later in life, and they'll be glad to have it.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:43 pm
The main thing is, don't pressure or get into a power struggle over this. Even if they answer in Yiddish, continue talking to them in English. Maybe make it into a game - this teddy bear only understands English
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:50 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So if u did tutoring in the past, how about I send my kids to you 🤤


I live in Boro Park. You can PM me.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:53 pm
What ann odd topic, sorry.
HaIe you ever seen a grown man not being able to speak/understand English?
My husband , brothers, brothers in law, nephews... on both sides , large family knh, all grew up chassidish they had english until bar mitzvah ( basically simple math) and they're all successful businessmen.
They became older, more worldly, and picked up English..
Especially by reading English newspapers..
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 2:07 pm
Rappel wrote:
If you're speaking English and they're speaking back in Yiddish, then you've already won half the battle.

It's well documented that even in fully bilingual households, children often don't start speaking the secondary language until puberty. They will hear, and understand, but they haven't fully developed the section of their brains which manages that second language enough to speak it.

Keep going, and don't worry -- any English they learn will be a gift for them later in life, and they'll be glad to have it.


I grew up this way. My mother grew up in the US and English was her language, and the language in which she spoke to us.

My father grew up in Vienna, and he spoke a sort of yiddish/German that he grew up speaking. That's the language in which he spoke to us.

We answered back in English. That was the language we were mostly picking up. But we did speak to my grandparents in Yiddish, since they did not speak in English.

As a result of all of this, I'm fluent in 3 languages. English is my primary language. I also understand, speak, and write a basic yiddish (not on the level of you Chassidish ladies; but I can communicate with my grandmother with no problems; and I know exactly what you are talking about when I overhear you in the grocery or the doctor's office). I also was able to get around in Vienna - my German is horrible but I can understand and make myself understood. l And like I wrote previously in this thread, I can speak, read, and write Hebrew comfortably.

I'm all for exposing kids to multiple languages, but it cannot be pushed or done with resentment, not at the expense of your relationship.

I just also want to say, there was one poster on this thread who wrote about a child with special needs. I think in all situations, one must take the individual into account, and I doubt that that's what Rabbi Orloweck means when he says parents should speak to their child in their primary language.

As with all parenting "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If something is working out for you and your family, no need to change it. But if it's causing resentment, like the OP, then it bears re-examining.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 2:34 pm
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
What ann odd topic, sorry.
HaIe you ever seen a grown man not being able to speak/understand English?
My husband , brothers, brothers in law, nephews... on both sides , large family knh, all grew up chassidish they had english until bar mitzvah ( basically simple math) and they're all successful businessmen.
They became older, more worldly, and picked up English..
Especially by reading English newspapers..

Yes, I know many grown men with very poor english. And then I know some who grew up with no english and are now fluent but it came with hard hard work.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 4:04 pm
OP, I am all for kids learning good English! But I hear you saying that your kids are picking up on your frustration, and your corrections. If you can't do this without getting frustrated and correcting them, you should not do it. You can parrot back to them in the correct phrasing, as suggested above, but should avoid making them feel like they did something wrong. If you are getting frustrated and making them feel bad, they of course will get upset and avoid talking to you. It's up to you to figure out if you can do this in a fun and healthy way:) Hatzlacha!
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Wed, Nov 06 2019, 6:42 pm
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
What ann odd topic, sorry.
HaIe you ever seen a grown man not being able to speak/understand English?
My husband , brothers, brothers in law, nephews... on both sides , large family knh, all grew up chassidish they had english until bar mitzvah ( basically simple math) and they're all successful businessmen.
They became older, more worldly, and picked up English..
Especially by reading English newspapers..

All the time. I work on a medical office and many men can not fill out a simple intake form with name address, phone etc.
Just the other day I asked someone in Yiddish whats his date of birth and he answered " ich vais nisht". This is an adult born and raised in America.
I'm sorry but it is a shanda that so many boys are illiterate.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 07 2019, 2:04 am
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:
All the time. I work on a medical office and many men can not fill out a simple intake form with name address, phone etc.
Just the other day I asked someone in Yiddish whats his date of birth and he answered " ich vais nisht". This is an adult born and raised in America.
I'm sorry but it is a shanda that so many boys are illiterate.


I must say my db are fantastic with writing, spelling ... its just the speaking the language but I must say they are starting. Only starting to pick it up! Today lots of English responses. So I guess I will keep working on it , eventhough will take 5 years becoming fluent in it, I dont think I will ever regret it.
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abound




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 07 2019, 3:41 am
Different languages but the same situation.
I was talking to an "american Israeli" she was saying how her mother only allowed them to speak English to her and and of course she would correct them all the time, they know their mom loves them and the love their mom but they do not have a very close relationship since communication was stilted and difficult. Of course if they had a hard day or something like that the mom let them speak Hebrew but it was not comfortable and natural.
Get someone to tutor them in English, if your kids don't care if you speak to them in English as long as they can speak in Yiddish then do that. But don't force them to speak a language that is not comfortable for them. You might win the fight for English but you will lose too much.
Expose them to English in other ways (Uncle Moishy CDs, Take them to museums or other places where they are surrounded by English and send them to a tutor where there they will speak English with one person, discuss it with them. From now on I want you to speak Yiddish to me, but since English is important because we are living in an English speaking country I am sending you to a private teacher so that you gain the skills necessary.)
Good Luck!
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amother
Puce


 

Post Thu, Nov 07 2019, 3:46 am
I would drop it. Instead I’d read to the kids English Jewish books to build their vocabulary.
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freilich




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 07 2019, 8:05 am
abound wrote:
Different languages but the same situation.
I was talking to an "american Israeli" she was saying how her mother only allowed them to speak English to her and and of course she would correct them all the time, they know their mom loves them and the love their mom but they do not have a very close relationship since communication was stilted and difficult. Of course if they had a hard day or something like that the mom let them speak Hebrew but it was not comfortable and natural.
Get someone to tutor them in English, if your kids don't care if you speak to them in English as long as they can speak in Yiddish then do that. But don't force them to speak a language that is not comfortable for them. You might win the fight for English but you will lose too much.
Expose them to English in other ways (Uncle Moishy CDs, Take them to museums or other places where they are surrounded by English and send them to a tutor where there they will speak English with one person, discuss it with them. From now on I want you to speak Yiddish to me, but since English is important because we are living in an English speaking country I am sending you to a private teacher so that you gain the skills necessary.)
Good Luck!


This. Make sure you don't lose something very precious here.

Back off. Take the power struggle out of the picture. You can never win with it anyway.

Let nature take it's course. Plus if you expose them to English in different ways, they will iyh pick it up.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Thu, Nov 07 2019, 8:23 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
I would let them be!! They don't must talk English and they probably have a good enough English to use when they need to.


They live in an English speaking country. They should be speaking basic English properly. If they go to a job interview and say 'don't must', the person will think they just got off the boat.

They will likely not have good enough English when the time comes, if they are not speaking it at home nor learning it at school.

That said, I agree with everyone that it's not worth ruining the parental relationship for better English. Some parents manage to speak a different language with their kids and it works out fine, but very often by the time the kids are 6 or 7, they want to speak the language they are most comfortable with.

I suggest bringing lots of really interesting reading material that is in English (science, jokes, stories, comics). If you watch videos, buy them ones only in English. Bring music with English lyrics home.
Hire a private English tutor for several days a week, and offer prizes for studying well with him. (If they are willing to do this with you, even better).
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