A frum family needs two incomes?

dorothy1

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:44 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

OP, I'm afraid you're right, the math just doesn't add up. If you don't have a degree that gives you good earning potential, it's not worth it to hire babysitters and give them half or most of the money your earning. Bh your husband works but it seems like he's not making big bucks either. I don't think your situation is as uncommon as you might think. What do many people do? I have a feeling tons of people in town are getting help from parents. An in town family with 4/5 kids has a mortgage, big tuition expense, camps, and simchas. I don't know what the pre tax income needs to be, but it's up there. I'm estimating at least 150k. Many families make that money, but many don't. How are they surviving in town? I'm guessing most are asking mom and dad.

Honestly I don’t think 150 is enough , especially since such a family wouldn’t get any programs .

They’ll make about 110 after taxes
90k after insurance (that’s not accounting for any private therapies which most families will need at one point )
5 kids - 50k after tuition
20k after mortgage
10k after car payments and car insurance

10 is definitely not enough for all other bills, clothing , food, camp expenses, and the millions of other things families need

It sounds absurd that 150k wouldn’t cut it but the Math is there

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:50 am

I think your logic is only correct if the wife’s income is very low. If someone is working as a secretary or the like, then I doubt after paying childcare that it will ‘pay. But many women (raises hand! Me!) BH have careers. I’m not jn a particularly high paying field and yet nonetheless I make a decent income with excellent benefits (insurance, pension, etc! So it obviously more than pays for me to work. You say you didn’t finish your degree: well, unless your situation changes dramatically, you should consider finishing it and. Finding a career path. You may need to work towards a means to truly help support your family.

amother

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:53 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Yes, I'm thinking along those lines, that's why I'm posting.

So, yes, how does it pay for you to work? I'm thinking after school child care, cleaning help (please don't tell me that you manage to work full time without cleaning help, that just won't be me), and taxes how much would I come home with? I want a full time salary, not just a little bit to pay extras. And the first few years I will be iyh working full time, at a lower starting salary, and like I said, my husband is not home to cover. Is this at all doable???

watergirl

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:54 am

dorothy1 wrote:

I agree with you OP.
I feel like at least one parent needs to have a flexible schedule when kids are young. There’s no way around it.

I would try to think of a way to make money that’s not really time bound . Even a part time job doing data entry from home. Jobs like sheitel macher, tutor etc are also good for this. But I know that’s easier said than done. I quit my job bc we were not able to manage our kids with both having “careers”. We didn’t want a full time nanny

Your posts seem to be in your bubble only. How can you say there is no way around having one parent with a flexible schedule? Do you have any idea how many of us are part of a 2 full-time working parent household? Not flexible hours. Young kids. No help. We do it because we have. no. choice.

dorothy1 wrote:

And your math is bizarre and not from a world I know. I would not say MOST families need private therapy at any point. SOME families have kids who needs SOME therapy. SOME of those families opt for private. The rest of us go with whoever is covered by insurance.
Your numbers for car payments are also very strange. DH and I have no car payments, we both own our cars. And no one we know has payments either. We all drive old cars that we were able to afford somehow.

DH and I make less than 150k. A lot less. BH we own a home (have mortgage), have 3 kids with tuition (BH school gives us tuition assistance that we need), we have no help, both work 40+ hours a week, no nanny, no help. We have no choice. I leave for work at 7, work from 7:30-3:30 and get home at 4. DH leaves for work at 8, gets home at 6:45. It is what it is.

OP, if you have to find a full time job to make it work, then you have no choice. It just is what it is. If you have no kids under kindergarten, then you dont have to worry about childcare. You only have to worry about tuition. You say that moving would not help and does not seem to be an option for you because of your kids in high school (though I would still consider it if it were me), but really, lower cost of rent/mortgage would pay off more than you realize. Also lower property taxes. And schools tend to be more generous with tuition assistance farther away from the East coast.

And re: pay with a degree. You never know. My job gave me a 14% raise when I walked in with my brand new shiny BA degree. The job has nothing to do with the degree. Its a thing. You never know!

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:57 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I mange to work full time without cleaning help!! Yes, you could do it do. It’s all about doing what you need to do and lowering standards a bit. My baby (now older) is in full time daycare (which in my neighborhood cost less than a nanny and was preferable to me as well) which was 9 hours a day and she started when I went back to work when she was 4 months.

Honestly I’m hearing a defeatist attitude. Doesn’t pay. Can’t do it. Yes you can do it and yes it all does pay!

lora

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:00 pm

its true, its crazy. I work close to full time (10-4) and my husband works full time but because of me working I earn to much for medicaid or any goverment help including headstart so I need to pay full babysitting and minimum cleaning help to manage, which is a very big chunk of my salary minus health insurance its really not worth it.
there are some fields that may interest you that can help earn some petty cash without breaking yourself.
sales for a company (insurance, credit cards, phone providers, merchandise or services) which you dont have to do full time but earn how much you sell.
Tutoring
babysitting from home
selling things from home like Mary K or other cosmetics etc.
Telemarketing.
its not for everyone but maybe theres something like this you can do.

Last edited by lora on Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:01 pm

watergirl wrote:

I feel like you’re in my brain. I agree 10000% with you.

amother

Amber

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:01 pm

There’s a lot of room between working full time and a job so low paying that it doesn’t cover costs. Personally I have little kids and I work at a flexible job the full hours that the kids are out; my husband works way more than full time. I don’t have a degree but after years in my field I Bh bring in a nice salary, there is no way we could make it without.

You have to start somewhere, so while yes it’s difficult in the beginning, with time you may be able to cut your hours and earn more. You say you have kids in high school, you could get a babysitter to cover the 2 hours or so in the afternoon between when the little kids get home and the big kids do, then the big kids can take over until you get home.

As others have said, working in your kids’ schools can help with tuition. There are so many jobs that will pay just a year or so of experience: an excellent executive assistant, medical biller, bookkeeper, etc.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:03 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Just because you can manage to work full time without cleaning help means that she can do it too?!
Experience has shown me that aside from a select few “power house” women, this is in most cases unhealthy for the individual, marriage and family.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:25 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

OP, I think the question you need to ask yourself, is which balls will you need to drop in order to work full-time. Will the trade-off be worth it.

You said your currently working part-time. Can you add on anything to this? Something you can do at home in the evening?

If your in NY then res-hab for special needs is much in demand for afternoon. It can be done.

amother

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:29 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Ok, I have a large family, not just a baby. I have a lot of responsibilities in every direction (including older parents) and I guess I'm in a way different stage then you are. When I had three little babies I did work full time, but it's much harder for me now, believe it or not!

I'm trying to put together the numbers, that's all. I wouldn't be posting this if I had a defeatist attitude - I'm just trying to understand. How much can you come home with after paying childcare and taxes? I do have to hire some cleaning help as this is who I am, at least right now.

dorothy1

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:31 pm

watergirl wrote:

If neither of you hAve flexibility , and both leave for work by 8, who waits with the kids by the school bus? Who is there when they come home ?
My daughters bus comes at 845. My precious job was 30 mins away starting at 9. There was no possible way for me to be on time. They were flexible, so I could stay late afterwards .
Who is with the kids when they’re sick or there is no school ?

dorothy1

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:36 pm

watergirl wrote:

If you own your cars then you either bought them outright or had payments are some point. However even if you take off that 10,000 - let’s make it $3000 because we all have insurance and maintenance —- do you think $17,000 is enough for everything else ?
Cell phones groceries clothing toiletries and household goods school supplies and uniforms camp etc....
What else about my math is bizarre ?

amother

Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:37 pm

watergirl wrote:

You mentioned your schedule - it's more flexible than ours is. I don't have any coverage at all, so I would definitely have to hire someone to fill in the times where there is no coverage, such as after school. But honestly, I have to admit that I know almost nobody IRL who works the way you do, kol hakovod.

Looking at your schedule again - who puts your kids on the bus if your DH leaves for work at 8? I'm really asking because I want to know, not trying to make difficulties? My kids busses come between 8:00 and 9:15. And we wouldn't have coverage after school either.

watergirl wrote:

Everyone's math is different. That may be the reality for that poster, but yes, frum life is expensive. Some people (like us) managed to buy years ago so our mortgage is relatively low, but others are buying now and their mortgage is higher. Some people DO have higher expenses, and generally, when a family has to pay private tuitions, as all of us do, it's just a lot of money.

We have two cars, one was given to us as a gift by a friend, and the other has a monthly payment (financed). We needed one reliable car to get us around. We also pay a fortune in insurance as we have teen-age kids.

We have a low mortgage, as I said earlier, so that's not our issue, but as I'm thinking about this - DH's job is here, and it doesn't pay for us to move away from it. It may not be a glamorous salary but it's our lifeline right now. It doesn't make sense to give up a salary that we already have for the unknown. I think.