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-> Household Management
-> Finances
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amother
Slateblue
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 Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:57 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | I would probably say that he got in relatively early. Like 8-9 years ago and it was easier then. He used our wedding money to buy products and it just grew from there. What sort of “in”??
There are people in Lakewood making millions off of Amazon. He’s totally not big for Amazon. |
Millions in profits? I doubt this is true unless they got their "products" off the back of a truck.
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amother
Maroon
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Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:12 pm
| amother [ Slateblue ] wrote: | | Millions in profits? I doubt this is true unless they got their "products" off the back of a truck. |
This is the last time I’m responding to your negativity. No. It wasn’t through illegal means. They do private labeling. Have a good night.
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amother
Ivory
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 2:38 am
Dear big talkers out there:
Dh and I worked very hard all our years. We lived Frugally and tried saving up penny by penny. We were never well off.
I worked until a short while ago. I cant work now due to some unfortunate life circumstances.
DH worked like a horse all the years. For some reason he was let go if his job.
Degree or not, it's not easy to find a decent job with a good pay in today's economy. In fact it is excruciating hard to find a well paying position.
In order to live, we needed to use up our last bit of savings that we so painstakingly pinched on, to buy a house and marry off our kids.
We did our utmost hishtadlus, and thus Hashem made our financial situation complicated.
So don't come and say, if you both work, if you have a degree, if you do your hishtadlus- then you make good money.
It's all from above.
Some people have it relatively easy regardless of degree and working hard, some are not that lucky.
Watch your words, you might step onto someone's ingrown toe-nail.
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amother
Lavender
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 3:25 am
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I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. Of course there are no guarantees in this world. But on average, someone with a college degree earns more than someone without. So the responsible thing is for parents to give their children enough of an education to function. (It doesn't have to be a BA, but it needs to be something.)
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gold21
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 3:43 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Whenever I see this topic posted--and I see it over and over--it makes me want to scream.
Why didn't your parents educate you about the harsh, cold realities of life? Yes, most of us need two incomes to get by. Especially if we want kids and a roof over our heads in a Jewish community.
And so, for many of us, that means going to college. Getting a degree. Or learning a trade. And then starting a career. And maybe this should happen before we get married so we can have some savings in the bank when we start our new lives with our spouses. Our spouses who hopefully also started a career. Because marriage is a two-way street, and you both need to support each other. In all things.
If you're lucky enough to marry a man who makes enough money to support you while your children are little, great! Take time off to care for the kids. But remember: Getting back into the workforce is going to be tough. Will you be ready for that? Tough enough to face rejection until maybe, just maybe you can find a satisfying job?
There are so many unrealistic expectations that I see so many people have, and I worry for our future generations. What are we teaching our kids?
(Posting as amother because I know the opinions I expressed are not popular with so many on this board, and I'm going to get slammed with angry responses. And I'm going to be outed as being MO. Which I am. No surprises there.) |
Cool beans for you that you are living a two-income lifestyle without a nanny in the home. How you work out daycare on the days off from school is beyond me. And there are an awful lot of days off from school. Sick days aside.
But, maybe there are other possibilities other than two full time incomes.
Move out of the NY Metro area....
Live frugally...
Not everyone has to make the choices you made.
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amother
Blue
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 4:05 am
| amother [ Ivory ] wrote: | Dear big talkers out there:
Dh and I worked very hard all our years. We lived Frugally and tried saving up penny by penny. We were never well off.
I worked until a short while ago. I cant work now due to some unfortunate life circumstances.
DH worked like a horse all the years. For some reason he was let go if his job.
Degree or not, it's not easy to find a decent job with a good pay in today's economy. In fact it is excruciating hard to find a well paying position.
In order to live, we needed to use up our last bit of savings that we so painstakingly pinched on, to buy a house and marry off our kids.
We did our utmost hishtadlus, and thus Hashem made our financial situation complicated.
So don't come and say, if you both work, if you have a degree, if you do your hishtadlus- then you make good money.
It's all from above.
Some people have it relatively easy regardless of degree and working hard, some are not that lucky.
Watch your words, you might step onto someone's ingrown toe-nail. |
I agree with you. I wouldn't have agreed a couple years ago because BH I've always got any job I applied for. I was thankful but kind of thought that's how it works. Now my husband has been trying to find a job and nobody wants him even though he has more work experience than me.
I don't get it at all. He even applied as a cashier in a supermarket and they said no. It's very hard and his self esteem suffered a lot!!
It changed my perspective completely.
The job (very well paid) I have right now, I got it even though I gave wrong answers in the job interview. My boss said she chose me because she liked that my whole face lit up when I smiled and it wasn't a fake smile.
WHAT?!?! Well I'm thankful!!! I mean we daven for chein every day but didn't think it would land me a job!
So yes. Of course the chances are theoretically better if one has a great degree and lots of work experience. But unless hashem wants it to happen it won't.
Doesn't mean one doesn't have to try super hard.
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1091
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 6:11 am
| cozyblanket wrote: | Simple.
Some places have babysitting/preschool options only til 1 or 2pm and it's so hard to make arrangements to have your children cared for later than that.
Some places have vacation camp options during school vacations and some don't; you are on your own with finding a babysitter, etc.
In some places, the school knows to schedule events on Sundays to accommodate working parents and some places repeatedly schedule things on weekdays at 10:30am and you want to tear your hair out.
Some schools start at 8:15 and some start at 9:00.
Yes, there are places where the setup is more supportive of two working parents than other places. |
I started out in Brooklyn where this was not the case. I live in NJ now and until the last maybe five years, this wasn’t the case. Every school function was during the day. We had a nanny plus jobs that offered some work from home flexibility. But honestly for the longest time, it was the jobs not the community that made this helpful.
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amother
Salmon
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 8:12 am
| amother [ Orchid ] wrote: | | Sorry, but I believe you're being self righteous now. Because people who cannot be self-employed entrepreneurs are crippled without a degree. |
Not necessarily.
I’m seeing all the time that ppl who have degrees are many times limited by what they can earn. But those who do their own things the skies the limit.
I have friends whose dhs have crazy debt from school. Not every lawyer is going to make big bucks just because they have a degree. Or dr. My friends whose husbands have good degrees struggle.
I am a software engineer degree. Where I live I’m capped at 100k about.
My DH is self employed with barely a hs diploma and is doing way better then my friends whose dhs have degrees.
And most of dhs friends don’t have a high school education are doing amazing financially.
A. Everything is in the hands of Hashem
B. A degree isn’t everything anymore.
Think about those who you know who are tremendously wealthy. Other then a few drs or lawyers (who prob aren’t even on that level). All are self employed or don’t have degrees and worked for others and made it.
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amother
Mistyrose
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 8:15 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Whenever I see this topic posted--and I see it over and over--it makes me want to scream.
Why didn't your parents educate you about the harsh, cold realities of life? Yes, most of us need two incomes to get by. Especially if we want kids and a roof over our heads in a Jewish community.
And so, for many of us, that means going to college. Getting a degree. Or learning a trade. And then starting a career. And maybe this should happen before we get married so we can have some savings in the bank when we start our new lives with our spouses. Our spouses who hopefully also started a career. Because marriage is a two-way street, and you both need to support each other. In all things.
If you're lucky enough to marry a man who makes enough money to support you while your children are little, great! Take time off to care for the kids. But remember: Getting back into the workforce is going to be tough. Will you be ready for that? Tough enough to face rejection until maybe, just maybe you can find a satisfying job?
There are so many unrealistic expectations that I see so many people have, and I worry for our future generations. What are we teaching our kids?
(Posting as amother because I know the opinions I expressed are not popular with so many on this board, and I'm going to get slammed with angry responses. And I'm going to be outed as being MO. Which I am. No surprises there.) |
Hi, OP from the other thread here:
Yes, my parents did educate me about the harsh, cold realities in life. Yes, they did tell me that we need two incomes in order to survive. I had training in a very high income field, and I COULD have gone that route.
I just couldn't see myself working full time while my babies were young. I wanted to be the ones raising them, putting them on the bus, being there for them when they came home. Being there for their first smile, for their first steps. Is that so terrible? Is it such a radical concept? Is it really the new norm now, that both parents have to be in high income fields? Why couldn't I have stayed in the simple life, living frugally on one and a half incomes?
We managed for many years until suddenly we didn't. And I now have to figure out how to bring in a second, full income. But it's not the Cheltenham tragedy you are making it out to be. I have to adjust my thinking to that of a full time working mom, something which I never really wanted to do. It's ok, I'll start at the bottom and iyh will make a decent salary in a couple of years. I just have another year to finish my degree and certification; it's hard, but a little hard work never killed anyone, as they say.
When my children were little, I didn't want to work full time. I still think it's crazy that society expects women to work full time while simultaneously raising a family. This is not about the hard, cold facts of life, this is about society gone meshuga. IMO.
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SacN
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 8:27 am
| Quote: |
We obviously know different people then. A lot of women have degrees in things like history, english literature, or psychology, which are nice but not helpful for parnasah. |
I have two such degrees (English lit & political science BA, creative writing MFA), and work in a high paid marketing writing job.
My degrees definitely helped me get my job.
It's not about the degree - it's about being goal driven. I work with a guy with a degree in geography. I mean, really. But he does well too.
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amother
Orchid
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 8:42 am
| amother [ Salmon ] wrote: | Not necessarily.
I’m seeing all the time that ppl who have degrees are many times limited by what they can earn. But those who do their own things the skies the limit.
I have friends whose dhs have crazy debt from school. Not every lawyer is going to make big bucks just because they have a degree. Or dr. My friends whose husbands have good degrees struggle.
I am a software engineer degree. Where I live I’m capped at 100k about.
My DH is self employed with barely a hs diploma and is doing way better then my friends whose dhs have degrees.
And most of dhs friends don’t have a high school education are doing amazing financially.
A. Everything is in the hands of Hashem
B. A degree isn’t everything anymore.
Think about those who you know who are tremendously wealthy. Other then a few drs or lawyers (who prob aren’t even on that level). All are self employed or don’t have degrees and worked for others and made it. |
You're focused on wealth, being rich and making the really big bucks. If that's your goal in life, then being your own boss is one of the best ways to reach that. But the percent of population that can reach that goal is very low, and being a self employed entrepreneur comes with a larger risk than other work opportunities. So for the average family, the goal is being comfortable and being able to afford a decent lifestyle. Having a degree is one of the better ways to reach that goal.
Of course everything is in the hands of Hashem, and a degree isn't a guaranteed means to a parnossoh. But it sure opens up doors for many a persons. And keep in mind that the majority of the population are workers or in careers, not business owners. So with that in mind, we do need to offer the opportunity to earn a degree for our children. It more often than not comes in very very handy.
Stop looking at the few who have made it despite being properly educated. Start looking at the many who are struggling at dead-end jobs, who having a degree would have given them a way out.
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GreenEyes26
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 9:00 am
| amother [ Orchid ] wrote: | You're focused on wealth, being rick and making the really big bucks. If that's your goal in life, then being your own boss is one of the best ways to reach that. But the percent of population that can reach that goal is very low, and being a self employed entrepreneur comes with a larger risk than other work opportunities. So for the average family, the goal is being comfortable and being able to afford a decent lifestyle. Having a degree is one of the better ways to reach that goal.
Of course everything is in the hands of Hashem, and a degree isn't a guaranteed means to a parnossoh. But it sure opens up doors for many a persons. And keep in mind that the majority of the population are workers or in careers, not business owners. So with that in mind, we do need to offer the opportunity to earn a degree for our children. Its more often than not, comes in very very handy.
Stop looking at the few who have made it despite being properly educated. Start looking at the many who are struggling at dead-end jobs, who having a degree would have given them a way out. |
THANK YOU! Perfectly said.
In addition, forget about needing the degree vs not needing it at the end of the day. In most Chareidi communities, THEY AREN'T EVEN GIVEN A CHOICE. It's not like the schools say, "Oh, if you want to support your family one day, at least have some sort of degree/trade education/valuable skill in your back pocked, in case your amazing self-started business isn't successful."
Instead, they're minimally educated (let's not even mention the communities in which they don't even speak English, can't read or write, or do basic math), encouraged to learn long-term, given no valuable skills, and married off young with babies coming quickly and often.
The math literally just doesn't add up.
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amother
Mustard
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 9:54 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | | It means nothing where I live. Maybe it means something in the big wide world, but not in "frumsville". |
But the thing is that in "frumsville" where a degree means nothing, you need to have the right connections to get a lucrative job with growth potential. For the rest of us we need to go to college and get experience by either volunteering or interning. When we get hired at our first real job it's because of our degree and experience which required a lot of hard work and not because we knew the right people.
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amother
Salmon
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 9:57 am
| amother [ Orchid ] wrote: | You're focused on wealth, being rich and making the really big bucks. If that's your goal in life, then being your own boss is one of the best ways to reach that. But the percent of population that can reach that goal is very low, and being a self employed entrepreneur comes with a larger risk than other work opportunities. So for the average family, the goal is being comfortable and being able to afford a decent lifestyle. Having a degree is one of the better ways to reach that goal.
Of course everything is in the hands of Hashem, and a degree isn't a guaranteed means to a parnossoh. But it sure opens up doors for many a persons. And keep in mind that the majority of the population are workers or in careers, not business owners. So with that in mind, we do need to offer the opportunity to earn a degree for our children. It more often than not comes in very very handy.
Stop looking at the few who have made it despite being properly educated. Start looking at the many who are struggling at dead-end jobs, who having a degree would have given them a way out. |
Personally I’m not looking to be rich.
I’m looking to pay my norgage, tuition, and save for future and retirement.
We need 200k for our current family size.
That is my goal now.
Many degrees even in a 2 income home will not earn that (where I live out of ny).
My DH and I both work hard and earn just above that.
I’m not saying it’s an easy path to just making it. But I don’t see a degree getting you there better.
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amother
Jade
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 9:57 am
| amother [ Orchid ] wrote: | You're focused on wealth, being rich and making the really big bucks. If that's your goal in life, then being your own boss is one of the best ways to reach that. But the percent of population that can reach that goal is very low, and being a self employed entrepreneur comes with a larger risk than other work opportunities. So for the average family, the goal is being comfortable and being able to afford a decent lifestyle. Having a degree is one of the better ways to reach that goal.
Of course everything is in the hands of Hashem, and a degree isn't a guaranteed means to a parnossoh. But it sure opens up doors for many a persons. And keep in mind that the majority of the population are workers or in careers, not business owners. So with that in mind, we do need to offer the opportunity to earn a degree for our children. It more often than not comes in very very handy.
Stop looking at the few who have made it despite being properly educated. Start looking at the many who are struggling at dead-end jobs, who having a degree would have given them a way out. |
That may be true where you live, but where I live a degree means ZERO. I live in a very chassidish community where many people own their businesses, and these business owners provide great opportunity for the majority of the population that are not business owners. We bh have a flourishing economy and for those that aren't well off, there are amazing organizations out there. Nobody walks out of the grocery with empty hands because they cannot afford it. And btw, very few women work..
You are so set in your mind about a degree and education, I'm just proving to you again, a degree isn't everything! Could be in your community it's the only way to 'make it'. BH by us that is not the case.
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amother
Jade
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 10:00 am
| amother [ Mustard ] wrote: | | But the thing is that in "frumsville" where a degree means nothing, you need to have the right connections to get a lucrative job with growth potential. For the rest of us we need to go to college and get experience by either volunteering or interning. When we get hired at our first real job it's because of our degree and experience which required a lot of hard work and not because we knew the right people. |
No you don't need to have the right connections. Who told you so?
You need to be willing to work hard and be a dedicated employee. Any employer would grab such a candidate.
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amother
Salmon
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 10:01 am
How much will your typical actuary, cpa, lawyer make working crazy hours for a big firm the first few years?
What is the avg max they can earn?
Actuary - 150k
CPA - 150k
Physical therapist - 120k
That is after years of work. At that point that salary isn’t even enough for your avg frum family with tuitions and weddings.
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amother
Lawngreen
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 10:12 am
| amother [ Salmon ] wrote: | How much will your typical actuary, cpa, lawyer make working crazy hours for a big firm the first few years?
What is the avg max they can earn?
Actuary - 150k
CPA - 150k
Physical therapist - 120k
That is after years of work. At that point that salary isn’t even enough for your avg frum family with tuitions and weddings. |
But even in these fields you can expand- I know a wonderful male physical therapist who built himself up and is doing private work and in addition many courses and workshops and seminars and is doing quite well
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amother
Lawngreen
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 10:14 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | Hi, OP from the other thread here:
Yes, my parents did educate me about the harsh, cold realities in life. Yes, they did tell me that we need two incomes in order to survive. I had training in a very high income field, and I COULD have gone that route.
I just couldn't see myself working full time while my babies were young. I wanted to be the ones raising them, putting them on the bus, being there for them when they came home. Being there for their first smile, for their first steps. Is that so terrible? Is it such a radical concept? Is it really the new norm now, that both parents have to be in high income fields? Why couldn't I have stayed in the simple life, living frugally on one and a half incomes?
We managed for many years until suddenly we didn't. And I now have to figure out how to bring in a second, full income. But it's not the Cheltenham tragedy you are making it out to be. I have to adjust my thinking to that of a full time working mom, something which I never really wanted to do. It's ok, I'll start at the bottom and iyh will make a decent salary in a couple of years. I just have another year to finish my degree and certification; it's hard, but a little hard work never killed anyone, as they say.
When my children were little, I didn't want to work full time. I still think it's crazy that society expects women to work full time while simultaneously raising a family. This is not about the hard, cold facts of life, this is about society gone meshuga. IMO. |
I didnt follow your thread but you sound like an awesone person! May I ask what field your interested in?
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GreenEyes26
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Fri, Nov 15 2019, 10:19 am
| amother [ Jade ] wrote: | That may be true where you live, but where I live a degree means ZERO. I live in a very chassidish community where many people own their businesses, and these business owners provide great opportunity for the majority of the population that are not business owners. We bh have a flourishing economy and for those that aren't well off, there are amazing organizations out there. Nobody walks out of the grocery with empty hands because they cannot afford it. And btw, very few women work..
You are so set in your mind about a degree and education, I'm just proving to you again, a degree isn't everything! Could be in your community it's the only way to 'make it'. BH by us that is not the case. |
I wouldn't consider a community "making it" if 90% is on government programs. Which places like KJ/New Square/Williamsburg most definitely are.
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