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Forum
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-> Manners & Etiquette
chanatron1000
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 Sun, Nov 17 2019, 3:28 am
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It comes across as uneducated to people who are bigoted.
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amother
Silver
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 3:35 am
| chanatron1000 wrote: | | It comes across as uneducated to people who are bigoted. |
Uneducated isn't the same as unintelligent. It's just uneducated.
Society functions best when we all understand each other. That's why a lawyer in court won't "axe" a question. On neutral territory, we use neutral speech.
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amother
Denim
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 3:37 am
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Right. And if you were at a job interview, you'd be careful to use standard English in order to present yourself in a professional manner. You wouldn't start a response with "me and my current boss" etc
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amother
Coral
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 3:44 am
| amother [ Silver ] wrote: | Uneducated isn't the same as unintelligent. It's just uneducated.
Society functions best when we all understand each other. That's why a lawyer in court won't "axe" a question. On neutral territory, we use neutral speech. |
I have to agree with this. A person who uses such speech sounds uneducated in proper English. I work in publishing, and I have to be very careful not to let any frum-speak into my written work and emails. My work needs to be in proper English no matter how acceptable other ways of speech may be. Although since becoming frum and moving to Israel I do find my speech changing ("or this or this...").
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moonstone
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 5:30 am
| chanatron1000 wrote: | | If people use the phrase, it exists in their vernacular. It is absurd to impose standard English on people. |
I find your assertion absurd. Your community wants to perpetuate incorrect English-- fine, but then don't be surprised when the rest of us cringe and think you sound dumb.
Last edited by moonstone on Sun, Nov 17 2019, 5:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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moonstone
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 5:31 am
| chanatron1000 wrote: | | It comes across as uneducated to people who are bigoted. |
That is ridiculous.
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chanatron1000
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 6:37 am
| moonstone wrote: | | That is ridiculous. |
No, it isn't. Your cringing comes from a prejudice based on the notion that the version of English that is considered standard has some kind of legitimacy that other dialects do not have.
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amother
Silver
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 8:37 am
| chanatron1000 wrote: | | No, it isn't. Your cringing comes from a prejudice based on the notion that the version of English that is considered standard has some kind of legitimacy that other dialects do not have. |
It does.
The legitimacy comes from the fact that it's the universal standard. Of course language changes with time, but that's not the same as saying that every regional dialect has the same standing as the standard form. There's an inherent value in having a form of the language which is common to all.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 10:06 am
| myname1 wrote: | | I think it's because this phrase means exactly what we want it to mean. If I say "I'm staying at the Schwartz's house," it doesn't imply a relationship with them. Sounds more like just a hotel room. If I say "I'm staying by Schwartz," it sounds more like a personal connection. So I would say we feel or want to feel that closeness. And with eating, "I'm eating at my parents' house" sounds like a restaurant. "I'm eating with my parents" doesn't specify location. "I'm eating by my parents," at least to those familiar with the lingo, implies I'm their guest and we'll be together. |
Sorry, but you're wrong. You're obviously used to hearing and using "staying by" and "eating by," but it's just not correct English. You're rationalizing the incorrect usage and trying to create a meaning that simply isn't there.
It doesn't imply a relationship or a personal connection. To anyone who doesn't speak Yeshivish, the only thing it implies is that you don't know English well.
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amother
Purple
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 10:46 am
| amother [ Amber ] wrote: | | What makes me crazy is when I hear kids and adults says, “she is winning me!” I automatically say no, she is beating you. |
Or better yet, She's winning!
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amother
Purple
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 10:53 am
| amother [ Salmon ] wrote: | | comment from a Canadian people here seem to 'Put up supper" or 'put up their chulent".... is it going onto shelf? |
Or better, I'm going to throw up a cake, ie, quickly make a cake and put it into the oven 
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amother
Peach
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 10:56 am
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | | Has anyone else here had Miss Debbie Bernson for eighth grade English at Bais Yaakov of Boro Park? This was a pet peeve of hers. And the grammar she taught us! |
I had her 22 years ago. 
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amother
Purple
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 1:17 pm
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What's irking me the most in this thread and absolutely setting my teeth on edge is referring to dialect without the proper article preceding it. People don't "speak in dialect", they "speak in a regional dialect"; "a specific dialect"; "a Yiddish dialect", etc.
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Ruchel
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 1:46 pm
Haha, my whole thesis is on this (and published in english 
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chanatron1000
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 2:05 pm
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Explain why a person who is sitting at a table isn't also near the table.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Nov 17 2019, 2:28 pm
| chanatron1000 wrote: | | Explain why a person who is sitting at a table isn't also near the table. |
You can't fight the English language. It is what it is. We "take" a photo. You're not literally "taking" anything when you press the button on your phone. But it's proper English to say "take a photo."
Similarly, we eat "at" someone's table. We don't eat "by" someone's table. That's just how English is.
If you've been around frummies your whole life, you might think that's how English is. But it just isn't.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Wed, Jan 15 2020, 8:08 pm
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My son's spelling homework today contained the sentence "Jane sat by us at lunch"!
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amother
Pink
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Wed, Jan 15 2020, 8:23 pm
| chanatron1000 wrote: | | Explain why a person who is sitting at a table isn't also near the table. |
Because by means somewhere near the table. If I am sitting on a couch near the table, I am sitting by the table. OTOH I am sitting at the table when I am on a chair pulled up to the table.
It not only makes the person sound not educated, it makes them sound not smart. Uneducated people can speak properly.
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amother
Purple
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Wed, Jan 15 2020, 10:25 pm
| amother [ Pink ] wrote: | Because by means somewhere near the table. If I am sitting on a couch near the table, I am sitting by the table. OTOH I am sitting at the table when I am on a chair pulled up to the table.
It not only makes the person sound not educated, it makes them sound not smart. Uneducated people can speak properly. |
No, it really doesn't.
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amother
Pink
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Wed, Jan 15 2020, 10:26 pm
| amother [ Purple ] wrote: | | No, it really doesn't. |
It really does. It stigmatizes.
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