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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
OP
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 Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:34 am
We live OOT so there aren't a ton of options unless we send him to a dorm somewhere, which we don't want to do. This particular kid needs lots of snuggles and love and isn't ready for a dorming situation at all. So, yes, I'm considering a co-ed school because that's all there is where I live if you want MO. There's also a more Chofetz Chaim type place but there are a lot of issues with many of the boys that go there. They're not healthy friends for my son, they're rebel types. The MO school doesn't have rebels because there's not much to rebel against. There's a huge range of MO families there, from very machmir YU types to barely shomer Shabbos, so the religious pressure is minimal. Yes there are drinking and drug issues with some of the kids but I think you'll find that everywhere if you look hard enough?
I'm very leery of sending kids who aren't happy in a yeshivish framework to mesivtas that try to keep them "in the fold" so to speak. I think it makes them feel like losers. I think they feel like all their friends are going to regular mesivtas but they're not, so something must be wrong with them. It creates a dynamic that's hard to undo, from what I've seen. My son is smart but isn't a strong learner and he doesn't like the yeshivish lifestyle. He likes sports and "cool" clothes and cars and secular music and YouTube. I'd a million times rather have him be part of a MO community where he can do all that and he'll be seen as normal and regular as long as he has a decent job, is a nice husband and father, and attends a shiur occasionally. In our world he'll be seen as kind of a bum if he wears different clothes and isn't kovea ittim.
He likes to fit in with those around him so I know he's going to be very affected by his classmates. It's true I definitely have to research the class he'd be going into and see what the dynamics are.
I'm worried that the passion that you can find in the yeshivishe olam is harder to find in the MO world, at least in America. But I'm hoping it's just a matter of connecting to the right families and finding people who are growth-oriented.
Naturalmom, it's encouraging to hear that your son did well switching to an MO school. May I ask, if you don't mind saying, how he's doing now? Is he integrated well into a frum community and feeling like a valued member of it?
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts, they're helping me think this through.
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amother
Puce
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 10:17 am
Op, don’t make this decision alone.
My son and all his new friends are happy and thriving in a school perfect for them.
It will be a pressure for your son to fit in if he goes to a school where the kids come from a home much different than his.
You just want him to have good middos, derech ertez and yiras shamayim. This can only happen if his in the right place. He has to feel good about himself in order to grow.
Please get some guidance before you decide on your own.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 10:23 am
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My husband and I are working closely with our Rav as well as other Rabbonim that have experience with this type of situation, as well as the hanhala.
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mommyhood
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 10:25 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | We live OOT so there aren't a ton of options unless we send him to a dorm somewhere, which we don't want to do. This particular kid needs lots of snuggles and love and isn't ready for a dorming situation at all. So, yes, I'm considering a co-ed school because that's all there is where I live if you want MO. There's also a more Chofetz Chaim type place but there are a lot of issues with many of the boys that go there. They're not healthy friends for my son, they're rebel types. The MO school doesn't have rebels because there's not much to rebel against. There's a huge range of MO families there, from very machmir YU types to barely shomer Shabbos, so the religious pressure is minimal. Yes there are drinking and drug issues with some of the kids but I think you'll find that everywhere if you look hard enough?
I'm very leery of sending kids who aren't happy in a yeshivish framework to mesivtas that try to keep them "in the fold" so to speak. I think it makes them feel like losers. I think they feel like all their friends are going to regular mesivtas but they're not, so something must be wrong with them. It creates a dynamic that's hard to undo, from what I've seen. My son is smart but isn't a strong learner and he doesn't like the yeshivish lifestyle. He likes sports and "cool" clothes and cars and secular music and YouTube. I'd a million times rather have him be part of a MO community where he can do all that and he'll be seen as normal and regular as long as he has a decent job, is a nice husband and father, and attends a shiur occasionally. In our world he'll be seen as kind of a bum if he wears different clothes and isn't kovea ittim.
He likes to fit in with those around him so I know he's going to be very affected by his classmates. It's true I definitely have to research the class he'd be going into and see what the dynamics are.
I'm worried that the passion that you can find in the yeshivishe olam is harder to find in the MO world, at least in America. But I'm hoping it's just a matter of connecting to the right families and finding people who are growth-oriented.
Naturalmom, it's encouraging to hear that your son did well switching to an MO school. May I ask, if you don't mind saying, how he's doing now? Is he integrated well into a frum community and feeling like a valued member of it?
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts, they're helping me think this through. |
YNJ is more of a RW MO school, classes are not co-ed. It would be unusual for a kid from there to go to a co-ed high school.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 11:55 am
Heichal in NJ is not co-ed but not very yeshivish.
It seems to be in between with a very nice hanhala , a mix of learning plus sports, they have a pool etc.
Dh & ds were impressed when they went to check it out.
(Ultimately we went in a different direction, for personal reasons. )
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amother
Mauve
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:13 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | We live OOT so there aren't a ton of options unless we send him to a dorm somewhere, which we don't want to do. This particular kid needs lots of snuggles and love and isn't ready for a dorming situation at all. So, yes, I'm considering a co-ed school because that's all there is where I live if you want MO. There's also a more Chofetz Chaim type place but there are a lot of issues with many of the boys that go there. They're not healthy friends for my son, they're rebel types. The MO school doesn't have rebels because there's not much to rebel against. There's a huge range of MO families there, from very machmir YU types to barely shomer Shabbos, so the religious pressure is minimal. Yes there are drinking and drug issues with some of the kids but I think you'll find that everywhere if you look hard enough?
I'm very leery of sending kids who aren't happy in a yeshivish framework to mesivtas that try to keep them "in the fold" so to speak. I think it makes them feel like losers. I think they feel like all their friends are going to regular mesivtas but they're not, so something must be wrong with them. It creates a dynamic that's hard to undo, from what I've seen. My son is smart but isn't a strong learner and he doesn't like the yeshivish lifestyle. He likes sports and "cool" clothes and cars and secular music and YouTube. I'd a million times rather have him be part of a MO community where he can do all that and he'll be seen as normal and regular as long as he has a decent job, is a nice husband and father, and attends a shiur occasionally. In our world he'll be seen as kind of a bum if he wears different clothes and isn't kovea ittim.
He likes to fit in with those around him so I know he's going to be very affected by his classmates. It's true I definitely have to research the class he'd be going into and see what the dynamics are.
I'm worried that the passion that you can find in the yeshivishe olam is harder to find in the MO world, at least in America. But I'm hoping it's just a matter of connecting to the right families and finding people who are growth-oriented.
Naturalmom, it's encouraging to hear that your son did well switching to an MO school. May I ask, if you don't mind saying, how he's doing now? Is he integrated well into a frum community and feeling like a valued member of it?
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful posts, they're helping me think this through. |
There are places with dorms that are geared towards kids that need lots of snuggles and love. Just like there are sleepaway camps for 4th graders that need TLC, there are high schools for boys like that. (Plenty of people live in places that have zero high schools, so dorming for their kids is a default option, and there are schools set up with this in mind.)
I would agree with the recommendation of previous posters to call R' Strauss. He really knows the field well, and has a good sense of how to question a parent to get a legitimate feel for their kid and what he needs. It can't hurt to call him.
Hatzlacha! May you see much nachas from all your children
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SixOfWands
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:28 pm
It can work. But no guarantees. Kids are different. Some are interested in having a relationship in high school; some aren't. Same with just about everything you're concerned about. I can't guess what your kid will do; I don't know him.
Why not give the principal of the school a call, and discuss it with him. He may be able to give you an idea of what has happened in the past. Then ask about having your son spend a couple of days at the school, to see how he feels there.
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amother
Puce
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:30 pm
I was honestly heartbroken when rabbi Strauss recommended a mesivta where my son would need to dorm..
I felt that specifically for this child it would be better to keep him home.. even if he doesn’t get home until 10pm...
He’s doing better than I ever imagined (his first year there) for many reasons.
I was also against the idea at first.
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meyerlemon44
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:32 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: |
I'm very leery of sending kids who aren't happy in a yeshivish framework to mesivtas that try to keep them "in the fold" so to speak. I think it makes them feel like losers. I think they feel like all their friends are going to regular mesivtas but they're not, so something must be wrong with them. It creates a dynamic that's hard to undo, from what I've seen. My son is smart but isn't a strong learner and he doesn't like the yeshivish lifestyle. He likes sports and "cool" clothes and cars and secular music and YouTube. I'd a million times rather have him be part of a MO community where he can do all that and he'll be seen as normal and regular as long as he has a decent job, is a nice husband and father, and attends a shiur occasionally. In our world he'll be seen as kind of a bum if he wears different clothes and isn't kovea ittim.
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I just wanted to say that I think you have really great priorities and values here. Not everyone is a good fit for the community they were born into, and that's fine. 
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mlc
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 7:17 pm
I know a case where it worked well, I know a case where it was disastrous.
The differences I see was that in the case that worked well, the mother managed to connect with some MO families and found some distant relatives who were from the area of the school. It seems that the connections helped the boy stay grounded. And the family stayed close too.
The case that did not work out , the family attempted to hide the fact that he went to a MO school and was very distant and embarrassed. Boy had no connections or anything in the school. Had a difficult time adjusting and ended up with the bad crowd in his new MO school
Ultimately MO isn’t OTD. At all. Nor is it a place to hide OTD. It is a different circles with a range of possible societal norms and ideals.
Generally, a rebel is going to need intervention from mentors , regardless of societal group.
If it is a hashkafic thing, or maybe a societal norm thing , then switching to MO can be an option. If child wants to be frum but doesn’t understand why it is important to wear a black felt hat or why he cannot get a college degree while staying frum, MO is a good idea . Because then he is choosing a different crowd, versus hiding rebellion by meshing with a crowd that his clothing would fit in to.
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amother
Papaya
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:27 pm
| amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote: | | I feel like there may be a middle ground here that you're not thinking of. Maybe a Chofetz Chaim? |
Wait, what? Chofetz Chaim is Yeshivish, though not Brooklyn-y (aside from the one in Brooklyn)
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amother
Papaya
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:31 pm
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I know a boy from a more yeshivish type home who went to a MO school and was a disaster. There were 3 tracks, and he was in the lowest track with very bad influences. In the highest track he would've had better influences, but then, if he had been able to manage the highest track he would've been in a different school.
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amother
Puce
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:58 pm
| amother [ Papaya ] wrote: | | Wait, what? Chofetz Chaim is Yeshivish, though not Brooklyn-y (aside from the one in Brooklyn) |
It’s actually not. It’s known as a non yeshivish yeshiva.
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amother
Papaya
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:06 pm
| amother [ Puce ] wrote: | | It’s actually not. It’s known as a non yeshivish yeshiva. |
Whatev
Just curious, do you personally know people who send there?
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amother
Oak
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:13 pm
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Are there any Jewish Montessori or Montessori style schools near you? This may be a better fit. You can check on this website although it looks like their map hasn’t been updated in a few years. http://jewishmontessorinetwork.....=home
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amother
Puce
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:22 pm
| amother [ Papaya ] wrote: | Whatev
Just curious, do you personally know people who send there? |
Yup! Great place but you have to be the type...
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naturalmom5
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Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:25 pm
OP....
He's. 21 now. He is going to college for engineering and has a small job on side.
He also helps run an NCSY group..
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amother
Lawngreen
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Thu, Nov 21 2019, 1:08 am
| amother [ Papaya ] wrote: | Whatev
Just curious, do you personally know people who send there? |
I know hundreds of cc guys and Rebbeim. In general the cc hashkafah is not a yeshivish one (though I guess it depends on how you define yeshivish). Putting that aside however, specifically the high schools don't cater to a yeshivish boy. They are mostly oot and if there are yeshivish boys in that city they usually go away (unless their parents would rather be home). One of the reasons why cc is so into establishing high schools in these random cities is actually to get the boys who would otherwise go to the mo coed alternative and create them into bnei torah, learning or working. Yes some of the high schools are more "yeshivish" than others. I'm sure the rules in each one are not the same (for example WITS is for sure more strict than st louis). But even then "strict" is relative - nowhere near classic Lakewood strict).
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Ruchel
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Thu, Nov 21 2019, 6:52 am
Nothing is an OTD place until it is, whatever the initial was.
I don't think some dorms are geared towards kids needing cuddles.
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