Ami article; Chaim Ekstein's $10K wedding plan

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 8:46 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Yes like Bais faiga wedding is 10k total for 300 ppl. (Hall, food, music, catere, silk flowers)
If you go to a hall with 200 ppl you end up paying more. Most halls around here work out like that.

I just made a bar mitzvah and only invited aunts uncles first cousins grand parents and great aunts and uncles.
It was 125 people. With not a single non close relative. Multiply that by the other side and you are pretty much there.
I’m already thinking how many married nieces and nephews I’m going to have by the time my kids are married off. The numbers will be way higher. Who do you not invite.
And our families not so huge.

I agree that it is hard to cut down. I am one of 3 kids and we have 7 stepsiblings, almost all married and all with kids. So between my siblings, step siblings, nieces, nephews, step-nieces and step nephews we are close to 100 people. I feel your pain. That doesn't include any aunts/uncles/cousins or friends.

But, not everyone has enormous families. And even with large families, you still don't have to invite more than family plus a few close friends. There are ways to start trimming the list.

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 8:59 am

watergirl wrote:

Who is buying all of these outfits for everyone? Please tell me you are exaggerating. When my friends all got married, different people took part in throwing sheva brachos for the couple and the immediate family was not invited to all of them, much to everyone's relief. This whole "shabbos sheva brachos" thing is one of the most blown up things I've seen on here as well. Are people really making mini weddings? I remember mine and how astounded I was over the fancy gefilta fish! Why is this even a thing?

You probably didn't see the aufruf thread Twisted Evil

It's not that I'm against Yiddishe simchos, particularly those connected with marriage (listen to last week's Rabbi Reisman navi shiur about how chasunas are national simchos). But no one should feel mechuyav to do everything on someone else's checklist if that's not what works for them.

keym

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 9:18 am

Here is my opinion.
This whole conversation is relevant to people who do what everyone else is doing without thinking about why.
I'm not at the wedding stage. I'm doing bar mitzvahs soon. But it's the same thing.
Buy those tefillin. Not because they're more kosher, but because that's where "everyone" buys it.
I could spend a fortune making a bar mitzvah just like everyone else and it won't be meaningful to me or my son.
Instead I am consciously looking at the lists. What is important to me? What is important to my son? Which part? It's surprising to me how little certain things mean to the bar mitzvah boy.
This son doesn't care about anything else but a one man band and friends dancing with him.
A different son may care about a hot big kiddush but nothing else.

The problem with some of these comments and suggestions is that everyone is still following"rules" and doing things that everyone else is doing.
I would have been very upset if I couldn't invite all my aunt's, uncle's, and cousins. I wanted them all there, even though we had 450 people at my wedding. But my gown was borrowed, I did my own makeup, and my centerpieces were borrowed silk flowers, mirrors, and candles. But I had MY wedding.

M0mmy

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 9:47 am

watergirl wrote:

There is no reason to cut out, of all things, sheva brachos. What needs to be cut out is the insane things you are describing. I cant believe and I dont want to believe that anyone does what you described above.

Start with the weddings - 2 weddings a night? Most people? What and who? I think Mishpacha published something about this a while ago. We need to take a better look at the things we consider to be social obligations and we need to get over ourselves. Pick one wedding a week and go to that one. Or pick one wedding every 2 weeks. I cant imagine giving gifts to all of those people! I promise, the people making the weddings will get over I if you dont go. And if they are THAT insulted that they dont get over it... that is honestly that persons issue.

Who is buying all of these outfits for everyone? Please tell me you are exaggerating. When my friends all got married, different people took part in throwing sheva brachos for the couple and the immediate family was not invited to all of them, much to everyone's relief. This whole "shabbos sheva brachos" thing is one of the most blown up things I've seen on here as well. Are people really making mini weddings? I remember mine and how astounded I was over the fancy gefilta fish! Why is this even a thing?

If the guests dont really want to go, and the hosts really dont want to invite everyone but everyone feels they are obligated... thats not a relationship I want to be part of! Do you?

Are we all really so consumed with just doing "whats done" that we are all losing grip on reality?

I agree with much of what you responded, though even 1x/week or 1x/2 weeks sounds high. Personally, I either am not at the stage (what stage is this even, marrying off kids? Even as a single girl, never got that many invitations) nor do I live in the tri-state area, but that sounds like a really crazy amount of weddings (with response cards!) to be invited to. Even the few I do receive full invitations (including meal), I typically only go if I feel close enough to the family that I believe my absence would be noted. (Of course, people are understanding if something comes up, but if there's no reason for me to miss, and they'd notice, then yes, I will make an effort to go.) I don't think it's in my children's best interest to have frequent babysitters so I can go party all the time with people who I casually know.

Regarding Sheva Brachos, I'm sure each community has their own standards, but most of the ones I've been to (even my own) were hosted in someone's house, with approximately 10 couples (more often husbands/bachurim and fewer women), with homemade Shabbos-style food (chicken and green beans, anyone?). Those in attendance wear Shabbos clothes (that they already own), and the more "extravagant" kallahs might buy 7 outfits, though I personally think it's a waste of money. Sometimes, if the chasunah was held in a city not so easily accessible to one side or the other, then the sheva brachos in their own city might be larger, but really so the friends who couldn't make it are a part of the simcha.

I also think that gifts are less and less common. For better or for worse. Growing up, I knew my parents would NEVER attend a wedding without sending a gift. When I was single, it didn't even occur to me to give one (sorry, no idea why!), and for the few I've attended since getting married, I've really only given a gift if I was close to the kallah/chosson. I'm not saying this is the way it should be, and you can always give something small, but I also think norms for gifts are very community-dependent. Where I live, making registries is the norm, so I look to purchase from there. (Don't get me started, though, on how some kallahs admit that they make the registry and just return all the gifts from it, and use the credit. It's fine for an item or two, but why bother putting things you don't want for someone to go out of their way to pick up and then return it. Most stores allow you to also just have a "fund" or something like that, which someone can contribute to.) My understanding is that in the larger communities, registries are less common and it's mostly up to the kallah's family to give her what she needs...

suzyq

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 10:12 am

I haven't read the entire thread here, but in my experience, the real problem is the pressure that people face to put on a wedding for everyone else. My wedding was VERY simple, not in a hall (we had it in a friend's house), very small and cost us around $3,000. It was perfect, beautiful and exactly what I wanted. But we had SO MANY people, including people we trusted and respected, and rabbis, who took us aside when they heard about the wedding we were planning and tried to talk us out of doing something so simple. I was told several times how I would regret it later. I don't.

I know this isn't a popular opinion in many circles, but if more people would openly have small, simple weddings where they don't feel the need to invite a minimum of 300 people, more people would feel free to have those weddings, and not go into debt for a PARTY. I know there are people who have very large families and keeping the invite list to a minimum is difficult, but there are plenty of people for whom this isn't the case. You don't have to invite every person you have ever met, along with all of your parent's friends, neighbors, neighbor's cousins and person you say hi to at the grocery store.

If we would stop shaking our heads in sorrow at the poor couples who have a small backyard wedding with a barbecue for the meal, more people would be ok with doing it and we may see less threads here about how people can afford a house, or are able to pay for basic needs.

GOING INTO DEBT FOR A PARTY IS A WASTE OF MONEY. PERIOD. It's time we wake up and realize that the frum world is hemorrhaging money on things that don't really matter and tell people it's ok not to do so.

amother

Blush

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 10:22 am

SixOfWands wrote:

So its still significantly over $10,000 when you add in clothing, wedding ring (even if no other jewelry) and ketuba.

In Baltimore, the cost is a bit higher, I think something like $20-$25/person (with upgrade options), but still there are respectable packages in the $10,000-$15000 range. The wedding ring, as it is plain, does not need to cost that much, and my husband's family got the kesuba from a seforim store. (I never looked at how much it cost, but I imagine not much...) We don't need something hand-made and ornate, just the document, which I store among my belongings. (Side note: my husband was instructed by his Rebbe that I should actually keep it out of sight with my stuff so he doesn't necessarily know where it is. Kind of as a shemirah that the husband doesn't have it in his possession if chas v'shalom things went south.)

Clothing - make use of gemachs. Alterations and cleaning need to be done, yes, but shouldn't rack up too much on the costs.

asmileaday

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 10:40 am

keym wrote:

....snip

The problem with some of these comments and suggestions is that everyone is still following"rules" and doing things that everyone else is doing.

I would have been very upset if I couldn't invite all my aunt's, uncle's, and cousins. I wanted them all there, even though we had 450 people at my wedding. But my gown was borrowed, I did my own makeup, and my centerpieces were borrowed silk flowers, mirrors, and candles. But I had MY wedding.

So true! When you start enforcing takanos you yet again are making everybody do exactly the same and follow the masses. Perhaps on a lower scale.

This whole idea of doing things because everyone is doing it is so so crazy. I see it but I can't understand it nor relate to it.
I was raised not to have the slightest peer pressure and I'm raising my kids the same.

That's what we need to work on.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 11:39 am

keym wrote:

I agree with this too. We are coming up to the Bar Mitzvah stage as well. I'm noticing that many, many people are cutting down on the extravaganzas too.

I agree that you need to figure out how to make it work for you. We skipped centerpieces altogether but made sure to have some beautiful flowers for the chupah and pictures. I still maintain most people can cut their guest list without sacrificing the quality of their wedding but I definitely am of the "you do what works for you" team.

Mama Bear

Wed, Nov 27 2019, 7:48 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

So now 20 years after your chasunah, you not only have to replace your own set, but you have to buy furniture for each of your kids. So how many sets are you actually buying? How does this begin to make sense? If you choose to buy cheaper sets every couple of years, or buy yourself an expensive set that lasts many years, you come out ahead either way.

And why is there something about parents setting up the kids long term, shouldn't the couple be the ones setting up their life long term?

I'm in a different category than most. I had my first after many years of waiting, and I only have 2 children to marry off. My oldest is only 14, and I'm married for 23 years. So I don't have the same financial da'agos as a most ppl my age. So I can't speak for them.

And btw we're using a tax refund check to buy the dining room furniture... it's out of my regular budget.