Can't figure out my leichter situation

amother

Tue, Dec 03 2019, 9:13 am

I would like to buy a leichter (been using tealights on a windowsill till now) but can't figure out where to put it. We have a built in breakfront in the dining room that has a countertop but is it safe to light there if there are upper cabinets? The middle has a decorative arch that sits higher than the upper cabinets on either side so if it is safe to light there, I would set it up in the middle. But how do I know if this is safe?

Other options I have thought of:

- a small furniture piece across from the breakfront (table is in the middle) but then I can't extend my table with both leaves comfortably.

- a corner piece of furniture just for the leichter. We would still have to move the table over a bit if it would be extended fully, but that is more ocassional.

We.cant do a glass shelf on the wall because we have a dropped crown moulding.

amother

Tue, Dec 03 2019, 11:38 am

I don't think I'd feel comfortable lighting on the table at this point...we have several young children.

The height clearance - I don't have measurements but if I had to guess I would say there are at least 20 inches until the arch. And if I would push the leichter all the way back past the arch, there are another 5 inches until the top of the cabinet. Cabinets are wood, counter is quartz, tile backsplash.

zaq

Thu, Dec 05 2019, 11:09 pm

What is a "dropped" crown molding and why would it interfere with putting up a small shelf on the wall? A crown molding is up near the ceiling. Do you mean a "chair rail" or wainscoting part way up the wall? Even so, why couldn't you put up a shelf above the molding?

20 inches, even 25, even 36, is decidedly not enough clearance. I beg of you not to even think about putting candles on your breakfront. I would hesitate to put anything hot there at all, even an urn or plata, because the upper shelf holds in the heat and creates a mini-oven in that space. Something like an urn or plata that goes all Shabbat could generate enough heat in that small space to start a fire. How? Heat rises, gets trapped in that little alcove under the shelf, and has nowhere to go. It gradually builds up until the shelf, which is presumably of some combustible material like wood or wood product under laminate, gets hot enough to ignite.

Also, being exposed to frequent heat will eventually damage the breakfront even if it doesn’t catch fire. At best you’ll acquire a big ugly dirty smudge of carbon on the underside of the shelf. At worst (barring a fire), the wood or whatever the piece is made of will dry out, crack, splinter, warp and develop brown or black spots above the candles. If you think they look like burned spots, you’re right. The material oxidizes slowly and unnoticeably at first and gradually turns darker and darker like cookies left too long in the oven. This oxidized—really, burnt—material will ignite much more easily than normal wood.

Last edited by zaq on Fri, Dec 06 2019, 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total

M0mmy

Fri, Dec 06 2019, 2:56 pm

zaq wrote:

Something else to keep in mind:

I light on a shelf, and b"H, have no issues, but have noticed a lot of people who light standard candles kind of close to the ceiling end up with ashy residue on the ceiling. (B"H, hasn't been a problem for us - we use the neironim, maybe that's why? Or hasn't been enough years yet?) I've also noticed this at my parents house where the havdalah candle is often held high.

Just FYI Smile

zaq

Sat, Dec 07 2019, 10:04 pm

M0mmy wrote:

Probably you just haven’t been lighting in the same place long enough, or you paint often enough. I can often tell where people light their candles courtesy of the carbon smudge on the ceiling, unless they paint regularly. The lower the ceiling and the more and bigger candles you light, the more quickly the smoke stain will appear. Havdalah candles, having more wicks and a bigger flame, produce more soot.

All candles produce some soot. It’s not usually visible because it disperses in the air, but if you hold a plate for several minutes above the flame, you will collect a nice sample of what used to be called “lampblack” and was used as a cosmetic before the invention of mascara. When they described someone as having “sooty” lashes, well, sometimes it was literally true.

The same stuff that collects on the plate rises to the ceiling and stays there. It takes a while to build up . If you paint every few years you might only notice that the ceiling is cleaner and not really notice the smudge before you paint. But if you don’t paint for ten or twenty years, there will be no way NOT to notice.