Even the Torah only values beautiful women

amother

Seagreen

Wed, Dec 11 2019, 8:36 pm

malki2 wrote:

When the Torah gave physical descriptions it meant them literally. Their beauty was a reflection of their inner purity, but they were definitely physically beautiful as well.

Right, so we are all saying the same thing. And ultimately we can still achieve this outer reflecting inner concept in these days - as Audrey Hepburn said "For beautiful eyes, see the good in others, for beautiful lips, speak words of kindness..." (or something like that). Don't we all know people that look extremely beautiful to us because of their inner beauty? Don't we all know people with conventional outer beauty that look to us like snobby brats?

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 11 2019, 9:03 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

This refers to her pure nishama like a child w/o any sins.

I remember learning that her beauty at 100 was like the beauty of a 20 year old, and her innocence at 20 was like the innocence of a 7 year old. Sara was most definitely a beautiful woman.

amother

Wed, Dec 11 2019, 9:07 pm

livinginflatbus wrote:

I think their beauty is also referring to their midos Tovos.

So a woman's midos tovos are only mentioned as a hint? For tznius purposes, shouldn't it just talk about their middos instead of how gorgeous they all were?

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 11 2019, 9:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So a woman's midos tovos are only mentioned as a hint? For tznius purposes, shouldn't it just talk about their middos instead of how gorgeous they all were?

No, she said ALSO, meaning outter beauty and inner beauty were reflective of one another.

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 4:04 am

Rabanit Yemima Mizrachi has a beautiful lecture about purim/adar that speaks about how Esther was not conventionally beautiful (she was 'green' skinned), the source of her beauty was how she found chein in each person - motzeis chein b'ainai kol roe'ha. This made ppl see her as being beautiful.

BadTichelDay

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 6:06 am

Why all this worry about physical beauty? Let me be a bit harsh about it. I don't want to hurt OP, I mean this rather in general terms. Chanukkah is around the corner. Obsession with physical beauty and perfect bodies was the hallmark of Greek Hellenist culture. Hence all those beautiful male and female unclothed statues they left to the world. And their "invention" of athletes and olympic games. The Jewish way should be to focus on middot and service of Hashem, not surface beauty. There is nothing wrong with beauty and it can be a blessing, but it should not be one of our core values or take over our lives. Throw tomatoes if you want, but I am often astounded by all these worried-about-beauty threads on imamother.

PinkFridge

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:31 am

yc wrote:

I think you're saying what I heard b'shem Rebbetzin Heller, IIRC: She saw a nekudah of chein in every person and that's why people were attracted to her including Achashveirosh.

zaq

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:48 am

Tanach is meant to be understood on a spiritual, often homoletic level.

Homiletics: the art of preaching or writing sermons.

Not sure this is really what you meant to say—the Tanach is INTENDED to be the basis of sermons? I’m not persuaded. In any event, homiletics has nothing to do with people s@xually attracted to their own gender.

Chayalle

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:00 am

I always wonder what it meant that they were beautiful women. The standards of what is considered beautiful are often cultural and defined by the times.

I mean, our generation now is obsessed with being thin, but this was not always the case. At various times, being plump or fat or even obese was considered to be attractive. So being beautiful is really very objective.

I'll see my wife my Golda looking like a rich man's wife with a proper double chin....

ShishKabob

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:02 pm

I definitely think it means literally beautiful. I also think it means that the insides reflected the outsides and so on. What's wrong with some women being more beautiful than other women? It's a fact of life. It doesn't mean that if you're not beautiful on the outside you are not valuable and not beautiful on the inside and so on. It's and added bonus, just like money. Are you worth more because your bank account has more in it? Does it make you a lesser worthy person if you don't?

I'm not sure why, some people have an obsession that they are only worth if a, b or c. Or they try to find something that is mentioned in the Torah and then have a fixation on it. They then try to derive some sort of conclusion that goes along with whatever statement they are trying to make. rant over.
Please see the title of this: The Torah ONLY? Values Beautiful Women?

amother

Cyan

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:07 pm

No matter what beauty means, if there is such a thing as people having different levels of it, some people will not be at the top of the scale. Fact. However, everyone has enough beauty (or potential to create it) to live life the way he or she was meant to.

amother

Lime

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:11 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

Your point is true and serves to substantiate the seemingly obvious question of why did the Torah mention the avraham, yitzchak, and yackov, all married beautiful women?
I hate twisting the words around and answering that when the Torah says they were yefas toar, it doesn't mean physically beautiful, rather it means inner beauty. On a scale of 1-10, that answer is a negative 4.

miami85

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:20 pm

But also keep in mind that "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." I dated a guy that I found repulsive, but he got married and I'm sure his wife thinks of him as handsome. I have a friend that I was not particularly impressed with his looks and she told me specifically that she loves the feature that I found "ugly". Then while I think I have "potential", I'm no "Miss America" my husband always tells me that he thinks I'm beautiful

amother

Cyan

Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:20 pm

Avraham noticed that Sarah was beautiful when he saw her reflection in the water. He had always known that Sarah was beautiful to him; it took seeing her image in the water, a reflection that shows only the appearance and not the soul or personality, for him to even notice that she was also physically attractive.