 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Children's Health
-> Vaccinations
|
amother
Royalblue
|
 Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:47 am
| brklin wrote: | | This is really fascinating. Seriously speaking , where do you live that you can grow your own produce ? Do you have a large yard ? You said that your family has been living like this a generation or two ago as well right ? Does this mean no one in your family ever got sick ? No one ever needed antibiotics or gd forbid chemo ? What about blood pressure ? I'm not trying to mock . I am really just curious. Do you give birth naturally at home as well ? I am fascinated to hear that you never really needed any medical intervention.. what about surgery ? |
I dont want to share location . can I say no one got sick? no but in my immediate family, siblings and kids cuz I dont know that much about extended family, only time antibiotics was given was at a emergency csection. not saying we'd never give otherwise but its really really last resort when no choice. chemo is also a necessary evil. no blood pressure meds in my extended family afaik. yes many of us have home births too . those who have low risk pregnancies , I myself bh had a number of beautiful home births. the only surgery I know of in my immediate family , again I dont know about extended family , was for a big inguinal hernia (oh, abx was given then too) and for csection
| |
|
| Back to top |
 0
 6
|
|
amother
Jetblack
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:47 am
| Iymnok wrote: | She might be right if she could give a clear and well thought out answer. If she keeps avoiding the question and reverting to the talking points then she just sound ignorant or brainwashed.
Often anti-vaxxers sound like cult members. They don’t sound intelligent and well researched. Often they relate to the emotional aspect.
Obviously, some do all the research and came to the conclusion academically. I respect that. |
This is exactly it. Except it's someone I've known for many years and have always respected as an independent thinker, educated and logical.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
|
amother
Royalblue
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:49 am
| amother [ Yellow ] wrote: | | what about tea, coffee, bananas, avocados... do you grow them too? | dont drink coffee and most teas. bananas and avocados only organic and in season
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
|
amother
Jetblack
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:49 am
| amother [ Royalblue ] wrote: | | I dont want to share location . can I say no one got sick? no but in my immediate family, siblings and kids cuz I dont know that much about extended family, only time antibiotics was given was at a emergency csection. not saying we'd never give otherwise but its really really last resort when no choice. chemo is also a necessary evil. no blood pressure meds in my extended family afaik. yes many of us have home births too . those who have low risk pregnancies , I myself bh had a number of beautiful home births. the only surgery I know of in my immediate family , again I dont know about extended family , was for a big inguinal hernia (oh, abx was given then too) and for csection |
I have never heard of this as a shitah. Is there a halachic source you follow for this?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
amother
Royalblue
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:50 am
| brklin wrote: | | What do you consider a life and death situation? Does that mean you dont treat any infections with antibiotics? | life and death means person will die or likely die if not treated with abx. many infections can be prevented or treated other natural ways
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
|
amother
Royalblue
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:54 am
| amother [ Natural ] wrote: | So that's a no yo ear piercing?
No matter how much your daughters beg?
Does that go for all the people in your anti vax circles? |
I cant talk for others. if youre trying to challenge me I wont answer , if youre curious and trying to understand I can explain.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
|
amother
Jetblack
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:55 am
| amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote: | The third world countries you referenced can't be compared to US. Same way measles in Samoa can't be compared to our outbreak
My point about the person who didn't vax during polio outbreak was made to the person who said when there will be a polio epidemic RL the conversation will be over. My point was that there were always and will always be ppl who are reluctant to vax |
Ok. So let's assume you can't compare because of other complicating factors like hygiene and indoor plumbing. Regardless, we still see that people gain immunity from vaccines, as shown by blood titers. Would you agree with that?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
amother
Royalblue
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 9:56 am
| amother [ Jetblack ] wrote: | | I have never heard of this as a shitah. Is there a halachic source you follow for this? |
its a shita for a lifestyle not a halacha but there are sources in halacha for almost anything you want as long as its not aveira
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
amother
Jetblack
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:01 am
| amother [ Royalblue ] wrote: | | its a shita for a lifestyle not a halacha but there are sources in halacha for almost anything you want as long as its not aveira |
So is it a decision to try to be healthy because that's what Torah wants, or more of a derech with a rav who paskens that halachically this is what you should do? I guess I'm curious if it's an individual decision or a community with a rav that you're part of?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
amother
Royalblue
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:11 am
| amother [ Jetblack ] wrote: | | So is it a decision to try to be healthy because that's what Torah wants, or more of a derech with a rav who paskens that halachically this is what you should do? I guess I'm curious if it's an individual decision or a community with a rav that you're part of? |
individual no rav pakening , it's not halacha
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
|
amother
Aquamarine
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:15 am
| amother [ Jetblack ] wrote: | | So is it a decision to try to be healthy because that's what Torah wants, or more of a derech with a rav who paskens that halachically this is what you should do? I guess I'm curious if it's an individual decision or a community with a rav that you're part of? |
I'm not sure where you are going with this - but all of us make choices that are influenced from things outside of Torah. Silly example but if you came to my city you'd think there was a shita that sushi should be served at simchas.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
#BestBubby
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:35 am
| amother [ Babyblue ] wrote: | Poor science education.
. |
Wrong. Many news articles how it is upper class white college-educated who are
the anti-vaxxers. Here is one https://www.inquirer.com/news/......html
Anti-vaccine parents are often white, college-educated, ‘Whole Foods moms’
If you’re against vaccinating your child, there’s a good chance you’re a college-educated white woman making decent money.
The rebel forces in America’s latest culture war — the so-called anti-vaxxers — are often described as middle- and upper-class women who breast-feed their children, shop at Whole Foods, endlessly scour the web for vaccine-related conversation, and believe that their thinking supersedes that of doctors. Typically their families earn more than $75,000 a year
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
|
amother
Blush
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:45 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | Wrong. Many news articles how it is upper class white college-educated who are
the anti-vaxxers. Here is one https://www.inquirer.com/news/......html
Anti-vaccine parents are often white, college-educated, ‘Whole Foods moms’
If you’re against vaccinating your child, there’s a good chance you’re a college-educated white woman making decent money.
The rebel forces in America’s latest culture war — the so-called anti-vaxxers — are often described as middle- and upper-class women who breast-feed their children, shop at Whole Foods, endlessly scour the web for vaccine-related conversation, and believe that their thinking supersedes that of doctors. Typically their families earn more than $75,000 a year |
Yep. Just smart enough to feel educated, not smart enough to actually understand what they read and be able to understand how science works, what makes for an accurate study (hint: sending out a voluntary survey, getting subjective answers from a bunch of homeschool moms with no medical records provided, does not constitute real research), or how to understand research or its implications.
There are the people who know they aren't brilliant - they vax.
There are the people who aren't that brilliant but who think they are - many of them tend to be anti-vax, even though others vax.
Then there's the truly brilliant bunch who know what they know and what they don't know and who are capable of understanding science - they all vax too.
It's just the ones in the middle, college-educated because that's the new high school diploma and we've lowered the bar so that everyone will be "equal", who insist they're sooo smart even though they evidently did not understand a thing in their higher-level science classes (if they even took them).
BTW someone who "endlessly scours the web for vaccine-related conversation" is obviously not going to be basing her stuff on facts. She's basing her beliefs on what popular people or loud people claim to be true. I, personally, prefer to spend my free time scouring the web for new research on child development. As a result of the vaccine debate I've spent scores if not hundreds of hours researching autism and I've discovered quite a few interesting things....none of which support a vaccine connection.  I've also learned a lot about immunology. But, of course, that takes time, reading unpopular stuff, and being able to understand which researches need to be taken with a grain of salt, which are reliable, which state conclusions, which require "more research" to have any weight, and which are completely illegitimate and need to be retracted (for instance last year I read one that claimed impaired fertility for a group of women but only examined women ages 25-29, when most of these women are only starting to think about having children at 28-29 - that research has since been retracted).
But to "scour the web for conversation" on your favorite subject so you can spout propaganda and sound smart? I don't see that as praiseworthy, not at all.
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
3
|
TheNeutralOne
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 10:53 am
| ectomorph wrote: | | In my OOT community, every single child in school is fully vaccinated. |
Or so you think.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
#BestBubby
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 11:24 am
| Learning wrote: | | Before we had vaccinations children died at young age often from major illnesses. |
The mortality (DEATH) rate from infectious disease dropped to near zero
BEFORE vaccines were invented. So all those claims how vaccines saved millions of lives are false.
In old days when children were MALNOURISHED and there was dirty water and germs because of no running water and no flush toilets, children died from infectious disease. With better food, clean water, flush toilets and running water, less overcrowding - children stopped dying from disease - BEFORE vaccines
(by 1950s). You can see this on the chart posted - deaths from measles were near zero by 1951. Measles vaccine invented in 1963.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
southernbubby
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 11:26 am
| amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote: | The third world countries you referenced can't be compared to US. Same way measles in Samoa can't be compared to our outbreak
My point about the person who didn't vax during polio outbreak was made to the person who said when there will be a polio epidemic RL the conversation will be over. My point was that there were always and will always be ppl who are reluctant to vax |
I am not sure that all parts of the US don't resemble 3rd world countries.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
|
amother
Aquamarine
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 11:29 am
| #BestBubby wrote: |
The mortality (DEATH) rate from infectious disease dropped to near zero
BEFORE vaccines were invented. So all those claims how vaccines saved millions of lives are false.
In old days when children were MALNOURISHED and there was dirty water and germs because of no running water and no flush toilets, children died from infectious disease. With better food, clean water, flush toilets and running water, less overcrowding - children stopped dying from disease - BEFORE vaccines
(by 1950s). You can see this on the chart posted - deaths from measles were near zero by 1951. Measles vaccine invented in 1963. |
children did not stop dying from disease before vaccines - that is clear in the chart.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
southernbubby
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 11:34 am
| amother [ Natural ] wrote: | | Honestly the whole philosophy about humans being born with perfect bodies sounds like it's straight out of the Greek/Hellenistic worldview. I've been listening to Jewish history lectures. That's exactly what they espoused and it is antithetical to the Torah view. |
Well they started out perfect and then along came this talking snake.... 
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
#BestBubby
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 11:34 am
| amother [ Blush ] wrote: | Yep. Just smart enough to feel educated, not smart enough to actually understand what they read and be able to understand how science works, what makes for an accurate study (hint: sending out a voluntary survey, getting subjective answers from a bunch of homeschool moms with no medical records provided, does not constitute real research), or how to understand research or its implications.
There are the people who know they aren't brilliant - they vax.
There are the people who aren't that brilliant but who think they are - many of them tend to be anti-vax, even though others vax.
Then there's the truly brilliant bunch who know what they know and what they don't know and who are capable of understanding science - they all vax too.
It's just the ones in the middle, college-educated because that's the new high school diploma and we've lowered the bar so that everyone will be "equal", who insist they're sooo smart even though they evidently did not understand a thing in their higher-level science classes (if they even took them).
BTW someone who "endlessly scours the web for vaccine-related conversation" is obviously not going to be basing her stuff on facts. She's basing her beliefs on what popular people or loud people claim to be true. I, personally, prefer to spend my free time scouring the web for new research on child development. As a result of the vaccine debate I've spent scores if not hundreds of hours researching autism and I've discovered quite a few interesting things....none of which support a vaccine connection. I've also learned a lot about immunology. But, of course, that takes time, reading unpopular stuff, and being able to understand which researches need to be taken with a grain of salt, which are reliable, which state conclusions, which require "more research" to have any weight, and which are completely illegitimate and need to be retracted (for instance last year I read one that claimed impaired fertility for a group of women but only examined women ages 25-29, when most of these women are only starting to think about having children at 28-29 - that research has since been retracted).
But to "scour the web for conversation" on your favorite subject so you can spout propaganda and sound smart? I don't see that as praiseworthy, not at all. |
Those who vax are people who don't do research, who trust the government and
do as they are told. Those who vax are the "herd" - the Sheeple.
Those who do not vax researched online. And they read studies and articles by PHd SCIENTISTS and MEDICAL DOCTORS - studies that show that vaccines cause harm. Like the vaccinated monkeys who develop autism. Also see articles showing how the "vaccine safety studies" are FRAUDULENT.
Show me a vaccine safety study, Blush, and I will show you WHY it is fraudulent.
I am smart enough to find SCIENTISTS who debunked these "safety" studies.
Re: the Mawson Vax vs UnVax study - I agree it is not adequate.
Blush, maybe because you are so smart you can explain to us why the Government and Pharmaceutical Industry REFUSES to do an adequate
VAX vs UNVAX STUDY? (Retrospective so there are no ethical issues)
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
|
amother
Aquamarine
|
Thu, Dec 12 2019, 11:38 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | Those who vax are people who don't do research, who trust the government and
do as they are told. Those who vax are the "herd" - the Sheeple.
Those who do not vax researched online. And they read studies and articles by PHd SCIENTISTS and MEDICAL DOCTORS - studies that show that vaccines cause harm. Like the vaccinated monkeys who develop autism. Also see articles showing how the "vaccine safety studies" are FRAUDULENT.
Show me a vaccine safety study, Blush, and I will show you WHY it is fraudulent.
I am smart enough to find SCIENTISTS who debunked these "safety" studies.
Re: the Mawson Vax vs UnVax study - I agree it is not adequate.
Blush, maybe because you are so smart you can explain to us why the Government and Pharmaceutical Industry REFUSES to do an adequate
VAX vs UNVAX STUDY? (Retrospective so there are no ethical issues) |
support this claim.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
| Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Frum layouts/house plans - 3000-3600 square footage?
|
18 |
Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:45 pm  |
|
|
ISO name of singer/cd (frum female)
|
6 |
Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:17 am |
|
|
Any frum trips?
|
0 |
Fri, Apr 12 2024, 12:56 pm |
|
|
ISO Frum Therapist that takes Fidelis Medicaid in NY
|
9 |
Fri, Apr 12 2024, 5:28 am |
|
|
[ Poll ] Fantasy in the Frum World
|
61 |
Tue, Apr 09 2024, 11:40 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
