The coveted status of victimhood

chipmunks

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 4:05 pm

singleagain wrote:

Thank you for saying it Thunderstorm.

To everyone debating this..m what do you hope to get out of this? A pat on the back? Or are you really trying to understand all of this?

I'm trying to understand. I was thinking about it this morning because I feel so terrible for a few people in my life who are so stuck in the past they can't function normally, but so proud of someone I know who is so positive and lives so fully despite the craziness she's been through.

chipmunks

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 4:16 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

So unfair to compare people. Ever heard of the mitzvah to judge people favorably?

I'm comparing approaches, not people. The traumas and circumstances vary widely and I'm not saying so-and-so is a terrible person c'vs for not having the tools to deal with their situation (just trust me, so-and-so does not), I'm saying I feel terrible *for* so-and-so and wish it would be easier for them.

Ruchel

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 4:18 pm

And it is so unhealthy. In the torah it says we were critters in people's minds because we were into our mind.

Using what you deserve is one thing, even going through and through with it, think asking for more german money, but do not call yourself a victim to yourself.

amother

Mint

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 4:19 pm

chipmunks wrote:

OK That's very different than many posters are saying.

zaq

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 5:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are people who go through a trauma and then see themselves as permanently changed, the person they were before being figuratively dead and gone.

Those with a victim outlook will see themselves as dead and those with a survivor outlook will see themselves as permanently changed. Maybe stronger, maybe more cautious, maybe wiser, maybe even cynical, disillusioned and bitter but ALIVE.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 7:35 pm

Post traumatic stress RESPONSE, not disorder. Disorder imply there is something wrong with your response and you are stuck that way.

Post traumatic GROWTH is documented and just as valid a result of trauma.

The trauma is real, the unhealthy result is valid. It doesnt mean you are stuck there. After trauma, people either flourish or fall apart. Theres rarely a middle ground, and no one goes back to life as it was Before.

But, this is for US to know for our own traumas, not to use as ammunition to get our friend to get out of victim thinking. Unless you are their therapist and can gently nudge them along.

amother

Coral

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 9:12 pm

lilies wrote:

Many people first fall apart and then pick themselves up and flourish. (and fall apart again, and flourish..) These are stages, to judge one as a victim is only looking at the specific stage they're in.

k

Some people never proceed to the next stage but remain victims for life. That’s not a judgment but an objective assessment.

zaq

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 9:46 pm

lilies wrote:

They may not have the tools to get out of that stage. I know what you mean, just don't feel like it's their healthy self 'choosing that'. Y'know?

Some don’t have the strength, and some don’t have the desire. Some people prefer to remain victims. It’s in their comfort zone, and it absolves them of a lot of responsibility. To be a survivor, you have to get up and do things that may be difficult, scary, risky and just plain exhausting hard work physically, socially, and mentally. Not everyone is ready, willing or able to go that route.

lilies

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 9:55 pm

To not have the desire to step out of their comfort zone is itself a sign of unhealthiness. Some don't have the strength or aren't ready but the desire may be deep inside. A healthy sense of self does not want to be a victim. If someone seems to be happy being the victim, there is some unhealthiness going on which there might not be awareness of, on their part.

zaq

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 9:57 pm

lilies wrote:

Your point being...?

sneakermom

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 9:58 pm

“Victimhood” is very misunderstood.

Trauma hits people in many ways. Especially early trauma. Especially if part of the trauma was aimed at cutting down a person’s sense of mastery or control.

It’s so important to realize that abuse often cuts deep into a person’s psyche and ability to be empowered and independent. And many people have the “freeze” response to trauma which makes them literally constantly feeling frozen and stuck.

Therefore, “snap out of it” is like telling a manic depressive not to be manic.

Often people who were raised with somewhat secure attachments and just a sprinkling of trauma pat themselves on the back. They imagine they are superior. When in fact they are just lucky with luckier circumstances.

The more you understand trauma the more you understand why people are stuck and feeling helpless.

Even edger who wrote “the choice” was stuck in her trauma for a couple of decades before she felt relief and a sense of renewal.

Most people can heal. And healing can take a lifetime. Healing one layer at a time.

But never judge. Just be glad that you weren’t tested in a way that landed you in a helpless place with no map as to how to get out.

Because if you truly did. You don’t judge the ones that are still there. You understand.

solo

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 9:59 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

I agree with Zehava. Most people don't want to be victims; they would do anything to get out of their troubles. But they haven't found the way. Think of addicts, overweight people, people struggling with mental illness. Most of them try very hard to help themselves. Sometimes the problems are too deep to be resolved completely.

Imagine including being overweight with mental illness and addiction

groisamomma

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 1:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Does anyone else feel that in some areas of modern society, victimhood is such a status booster that people would prefer to suffer rather than to not be a victim of anything?

Am I the only one that understood this to mean groups, not individual people?

Entire communities, families that would rather collect welfare and keep voting in those that keep them victims, than vote for a president that will actually change things for them for the better.

Because it's easier to get away with things when you cry victim than to actually have no victimhood to fall back on and be accountable for making changes.

(Yes, dear, it exists in every walk of life, in all communities, I know...)