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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 7:29 pm
We're always so proud to boast, "look at the torah! Even 3k years ago, it wrote this and that and look! Still true today!" (4 animals with 1 kosher sign, etc)

How can the torah possibly put woman into a situation where they cant get a get without the husbands approval?

Because they used to beat the man? Oh. But the same Hasuem that wrote the torah knew that. Because for those days torah was advanced in feminine rights? Okay soit was progressive then but is behind the times now?

And no. I'm not arguing role of woman or who can be rabbi or gemara or any of that....

Why is a WOMAN unable to divorce without the man, and she can be chained for life while a man can get heter meah rabbonim? Is this a "chok?"
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 7:35 pm
Because lehalacha a man is permitted to be married to more than one person at a time, while a woman can’t.
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 7:41 pm
cnc wrote:
Because lehalacha a man is permitted to be married to more than one person at a time, while a woman can’t.


Hear you, but still doesn’t answer the question. Why is a woman bound to him. Why can’t she marry more than one person at a time?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:06 pm
Okay. So why does the torah permit many woman to one man and not vce versa? And not because society did then. Because society also served idols.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:08 pm
A woman cant marry 2 men because then people won't know who the father is.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:16 pm
Actually something along these lines was on my mind all day and I wanted to post but didn't know how to go about it.

The whole concept about men having multiple wives, being in charge of a get, etc.

And like the whole concept of polygamy in torah. Our kids are literally learning about yaakov moving bed in different tents and leah being the hated one. How was this ok?

Then I have this thought- will there be polygamy when moshiach comes?

I am just so uncomfortable with this.
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:27 pm
The real answer is the whole get thing should have been changed by Anshei Knesses Hagedolah thousands of years ago same way Rabbeinu Gershom outlawed polygamy, but it didn't happen, and then each subsequent generation didn't/couldn't change the halacha, being lesser in holiness.
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:28 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
Actually something along these lines was on my mind all day and I wanted to post but didn't know how to go about it.

The whole concept about men having multiple wives, being in charge of a get, etc.

And like the whole concept of polygamy in torah. Our kids are literally learning about yaakov moving bed in different tents and leah being the hated one. How was this ok?

Then I have this thought- will there be polygamy when moshiach comes?

I am just so uncomfortable with this.


I don't believe we will go backwards in Torah law meaning we'll keep halacha as it's been determined. So really the culture shock will be for all the revived dead.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:36 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
Actually something along these lines was on my mind all day and I wanted to post but didn't know how to go about it.

The whole concept about men having multiple wives, being in charge of a get, etc.

And like the whole concept of polygamy in torah. Our kids are literally learning about yaakov moving bed in different tents and leah being the hated one. How was this ok?

Then I have this thought- will there be polygamy when moshiach comes?

I am just so uncomfortable with this.


Polygamy is complicated. It actually was a great option for women who would be vulnerable without it. And the avos and imahos were worlds apart from say those who had 2 wives, one for beauty, one for procreation.

I hope that any child learning about Leah being the hated one learns that chas v'shalom Yaakov actually hated her. She just felt very vulnerable and not first choice. And yet, she was the one who was the wife of Yaakov in the spiritual world, buried with him and mother of royalty and kehuna. We can't learn this simplistically.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:47 pm
amother [ Sienna ] wrote:
A woman cant marry 2 men because then people won't know who the father is.


So 1 each.
Done.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:48 pm
This one aspect of torah bothers me so much. I think about it so much. Read up fluffy apologetic answers but none make sense
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:49 pm
I don't think Polygamy is a L'chatchilah. Hashem created Adam with ONE wife.
Avrohom had one wife and only married Hagar because Sara asked him too as a zechus to have children. Yitzchok had one wife. Yakov only wanted Rochel, whom he knew was his Bashert but was tricked into marrying Leah. Yakov married Bilhah and Zilpah at the request of his wives.

So I think the normal way was for a man to have one wife. If the wife could not have children, instead of divorcing her, the man could take a second wife.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:58 pm
Does it help you to think of it as a chok? That for some reason beyond our comprehension the Torah considers eishes ish to be one of the biggest immoralities, and therefore the Jewish way in marriage and divorce essentially is that the man binds her to him (harai at mekudeshes li...you are now set aside as mine...) unilaterally, and also breaks the bond unilaterally.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:59 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So 1 each.
Done.
.

This. Apparently doesn't matter who the mother is?

I genuinely want to understand and be comfortable with this, thats why I brought it up.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:00 pm
trixx wrote:
The real answer is the whole get thing should have been changed by Anshei Knesses Hagedolah thousands of years ago same way Rabbeinu Gershom outlawed polygamy, but it didn't happen, and then each subsequent generation didn't/couldn't change the halacha, being lesser in holiness.


Thanks for this explanation!
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:01 pm
trixx wrote:
I don't believe we will go backwards in Torah law meaning we'll keep halacha as it's been determined. So really the culture shock will be for all the revived dead.
.

Phew!
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amother
Silver


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:01 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
.

This. Apparently doesn't matter who the mother is?

I genuinely want to understand and be comfortable with this, thats why I brought it up.


The mother's obvious--she whom the baby exited from. The father's harder to figure out.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:01 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I don't think Polygamy is a L'chatchilah. Hashem created Adam with ONE wife.
Avrohom had one wife and only married Hagar because Sara asked him too as a zechus to have children. Yitzchok had one wife. Yakov only wanted Rochel, whom he knew was his Bashert but was tricked into marrying Leah. Yakov married Bilhah and Zilpah at the request of his wives.

So I think the normal way was for a man to have one wife. If the wife could not have children, instead of divorcing her, the man could take a second wife.


Interesting perspective! Going to think about this
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:02 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
The mother's obvious--she whom the baby exited from. The father's harder to figure out.


Ah right, no paternity tests in those days. I didn't realize that was the issue in terms of needing to know who father is for some reason lol
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:06 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I don't think Polygamy is a L'chatchilah. Hashem created Adam with ONE wife.
Avrohom had one wife and only married Hagar because Sara asked him too as a zechus to have children. Yitzchok had one wife. Yakov only wanted Rochel, whom he knew was his Bashert but was tricked into marrying Leah. Yakov married Bilhah and Zilpah at the request of his wives.

So I think the normal way was for a man to have one wife. If the wife could not have children, instead of divorcing her, the man could take a second wife.


And what if the man is infertile?
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