How To Be A Perfect Parent - easy (Mishpacha)

thunderstorm

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:05 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

When ALL the other siblings are on the side of the parent, then I guess that's enough to assume that the perceived slights are just that. Remember that children can have personality disorders too.

I'm not ch'v trying to minimise anyone's pain, however, this letter and topic was regarding cases where parents have been alienated for no real reason. And it has to be acknowledged that it does sometimes happen too.

No. Because often the parents use one child as the scapegoat. Especially in a case with narcissistic parents. I was listening to the audiobook CPTSD by Pete Walker and that is exactly what he said is part of this type of family dynamic. Some siblings are put on a pedestal , and usually one child is the scapegoat. And please keep in mind that personality disorders are a result of growing up in dysfunction. So if a child has a personality disorder that is usually a result of childhood trauma.

amother

Azure

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:11 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

When ALL the other siblings are on the side of the parent, then I guess that's enough to assume that the perceived slights are just that.

In utopia that might be true. Unfortunately that's hardly true in the real world. Ie: the term "black sheep of the family"

Yes children can have personality disorders. Guess where they get it from. Children act a certain way because those are the methods they were taught or inherited.

groisamomma

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:15 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

No. Because often the parents use one child as the scapegoat. Especially in a case with narcissistic parents.

"See how all my other kids have contact with us? See? It's my dd who has problems, not me. This just proves it." Yeah, well such parents don't see the problems that lie beneath the surface when those other grandchildren go home. I'm not here to judge because every person knows their own story but just because everyone else has contact doesn't mean there's something wrong with that child. Especially if he/she was the scapegoat.

amother

Yellow

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:18 pm

So who else (aside from me) is triggered by the parents hit with a belt on the heels of this thread?

Anyone who cuts someone off, there is a dysfunction. It isn't for us to judge if it's on the side of patent or child.

And two rabbanim said to cut off my parent.
For anyone who said rabbanim don't ever say such a thing, there are those that have.

amother

Olive

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:45 pm

groisamomma wrote:

But, would any of your siblings agree that you have a reason to break off?

I'm talking about the siblings all saying it to each other, not the parent.

And btw, most of the perceived slights I'm referring to are not incidents from her childhood, but things that happened in the recent past. Like she took her kids to the park with my mil and was very upset afterwards that my mil was talking to her friend for a few minutes while she was there.

Whatever, I'm bowing out here. Posters here don't seem to want to comprehend that parents aren't always the ones in the wrong, no point going around in circles.

amother

Apricot

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:08 pm

Oh my goodness, that letter was perfect! Thank you for posting this message. Growing up I had issues with my parents (well, we still do- it's not all roses). They behaved critical, judgmental and often didn't say things very nicely (to phrase it nicely myself). But you know what- when I grew up I realised that they did the best they could AND that was both good enough and what I needed. That's why Hashem gave them to me as parents. I don't understand how some posters here seem to believe parents should be these nearly perfect people who somehow always do it just right. Parents are people too. They annoy us, they are critical, they can be rude and outright infuriating. But at the end of the day, we're here because of them, and they love us more than anyone else. Our spouses and children don't love us unconditionally, but our parents do! Can't we be more forgiving to them, despite their faults?

ra_mom

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:12 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

Children don't divorce their parents because of annoyances or issues or because they were critical.
I really think people live a blessed life if they are so unaware of what sort of traumatic abuse some people go through in childhood.
If an adult child is still physically and dealthy afraid of a parent, and afraid of exposing their children to that danger, don't even try to judge them or talk them out of it.
Children aren't looking for revenge. They are just dying inside, still wishing they had safety.

Last edited by ra_mom on Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:17 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

I have an aunt who was unquestionably abusive. Even by the standards of the 1970s. As in hitting her kids on the head with a hair brush because she was in a bad mood. Today all her children would be OTD horrible people. But since they were born in the 1970s when you took responsibly for yourself and blaming or hating your parents was unacceptable in the frum world (and to a large extent the non frum world as well) most of her children are the most wonderful, successful and emotionally stable people you can find. The type of people who would be the most ideal spouses, bosses, neighbors etc.

Food for thought:

My SIL who is therapist herself made the following observation. She had been a successful therapist in a large frum community but then moved OOT. Her current client base is mostly non-Jewish. She says that her non-Jewish clients don't have anywhere near the resentment towards their parents that her frum clients had. Even though her non-Jewish clients frequently have much more legitimate complaints against their parents.

Why do you think it is that way?

Quoting an anonymous therapist's opinion doesn't demonstrate anything.

Laiya

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:35 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Know lots of people who claim their parents are "toxic" and it's almost in style to cut off your parents nowadays. I've never seen it from a rabbi it seems like a therapist thing.

There are extremely rare situations where a parent is severely abusive and hates the child. 99% of these stories are not these types of situations. It's very sad.

These kids will have kids. Let's hope their kids don't cut them off for perceived slights. As has been modeled for them.

How many adult children who've cut off parents have told you directly that they were not acting under advisement of a rabbi?

And how many adult children who've cut off parents do you know personally? Of those, how many have told you that their parents were never abusive but they are cutting off due to slights?

amother

Apricot

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:37 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

I think that's an interesting observation, which I too noticed. My opinion is a lot of frum parents are giving their children the impression that their children are little emperors and empresses, so these children grow up to be very entitled. When they don't get their way or their parent inconveniences them, they forget all the good their parents did for them and throw the adult version of a tantrum. I also noticed that every non-American I know has respect for their parents, while so many people in America seem to resent their parents today. If non-Jewish Americans are an entitled bunch, the frum Jewish community is on a whole other level of entitlement, which is really terrible considering that the Torah obligates us in kibbud av v'eim and so many of us are finding the most ridiculous excuses (Your therapist said to cut off your parents? Come on!) to slither out of doing that mitzvah.

Zehava

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:46 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

Stockholm syndrome
Enmeshment
Being the golden child who can do no wrong
Blocking out traumatic memories
All these are reasons why siblings would tell someone that they had no reason to break off.

Zehava

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:49 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

We are people too
And I’ll say it again because it bears repeating
We are people too
We don’t have to allow ourselves to be controlled, trampled on, shredded to pieces in the name of “unconditional love”. Abuse is not love.
Abuse. Is. Not. Love.

#BestBubby

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:52 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Maybe kibbud uv v'eim is in their genes. Eisav excelled in it.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 9:30 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

I disagree that all parents love their children unconditionally