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Aliyah pros and cons?
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Tue, Jan 28 2020, 11:18 am
I don't mind being considered a 'chutznik'. I've been here many decades already, and while I speak Hebrew fluently and even correct the natives, I still have a recognizable accent. That's ok. In 95% of the cases, being American has been to my advantage, not disadvantage.

I do not belong to any part of the Haredi world, though. I can see how there it might be seen as being 'less than', not as stringent.

In any case, kids above a certain age can fall through the cracks if you move cities, let alone countries. It's not Israel specifically. An Israeli family with older children would have just as much trouble in America (and I know a few Israeli families who have struggled there). Some older kids are just less adaptable, no matter what the change is. Having them leave friends and family, change language and culture, is going to be a huge transition. It's not that Israeli itself is so tough; it's simply tough to do anywhere.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Tue, Jan 28 2020, 3:14 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
I don't mind being considered a 'chutznik'. I've been here many decades already, and while I speak Hebrew fluently and even correct the natives, I still have a recognizable accent. That's ok. In 95% of the cases, being American has been to my advantage, not disadvantage.

I do not belong to any part of the Haredi world, though. I can see how there it might be seen as being 'less than', not as stringent.

In any case, kids above a certain age can fall through the cracks if you move cities, let alone countries. It's not Israel specifically. An Israeli family with older children would have just as much trouble in America (and I know a few Israeli families who have struggled there). Some older kids are just less adaptable, no matter what the change is. Having them leave friends and family, change language and culture, is going to be a huge transition. It's not that Israeli itself is so tough; it's simply tough to do anywhere.

Just recently a young woman who was born and raised in Israel, and her parents moved back to the US and left her with her cousins (mother's sister) but kept paying for her education, committed suicide.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Tue, Jan 28 2020, 3:21 pm
amother [ Gray ] wrote:
You can get all the clothes you want for extremely cheap at gemachs,


Please tell me where. I've been to a few and its very hit and miss. You have to go again and again at very restricted hours to find something. Like I can never guarantee that there will be a single item in my size for Shabbos, or slacks size 2 boys, etc.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jan 29 2020, 8:58 am
amother [ Gray ] wrote:
Thank you for feeling sorry for us, but don't worry- we're not sorry, because we see Israel for what it is, not the illusion we used to have. Of course there is a lot of good, but there is also a lot of struggle, and OP should know what other people experienced. That's what she said she wanted to hear.

I neither said nor meant to say that I struggled to fit all my kids in. What I said was, unless they were born here or moved as babies then it's almost impossible. For the record, all my children save the oldest 2, were actually born here or moved as toddlers, as we've been here several years. Nonetheless, when there is that 1 older child who struggles to fit in despite having friends, who remembers a better or easier life in chul, it doesn't matter that all your other children are doing great and are happy. There's often that 1 child in every family, usually the oldest, who has adjustment issues to aliyah, and OP should be prepared for that.

I cannot agree that not fitting in is a problem only in my community. I've spoken to Haredi, Dati, Secular and other stripes of Yidden, and in all our communities olim experience the same struggle.

Of course we were treated as chutznikim- that's what we are, and you are too, unless you were born or grew up here from a very young age. No one ever treated you differently because you aren't "a native Israeli?" I've been treated differently by Israelis of all stripes, because of my foreign origin, thick accent in Ivrit and mannerisms. It's not realistic to expect that one will be treated as a native Israeli because they moved to Israel, speak Hebrew and try their best to act Israeli. If you're from chul, you'll always be regarded as someone from chul, and treated a bit differently by a large percentage of the population.

The OP asked for raw info. I'm not saying don't move here, but know what other people experienced so she can make a thought out and prepared decision. If she decides to move, then at least she knows what to watch out and prepare for, instead of it being an unexpected problem.


OP here:
Thank you so much for sharing ur experience! I definitely appreciate it! Like u said I wanted to hear the good, bad, etc. Not just the " fluff".

We've moved before. My husband is not American and we lived in his country (can't say where cuz it will be a giveaway who I'm for those who know me lol) for the beginning part of our marriage. When we moved to the US my DC was under 3 so it wasn't so hard on her. When we moved again, but within the US, DC was 3, she definitely noticed that time and it was hard for her to get used to a new bed, new apartment etc. When we moved again, she was nearly 5. She still says she misses her friends, her teachers, her old apartment... It doesn't matter she can't put names to faces of her old friends, or that even has we stayed she's be switching schools anyway, or that our current apartment is MUCH bigger/better or that we are close to family now... I know she likes it here, and it was still a good move overall.

So how much more so when the child is older, and u move country's! I get it! And it's definitely something to keep in mind!

Anyway, I wanted to say thank you for opening up.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:10 am
OP here:
Wow, I haven't checked the thread in a while and was pleasantly surprised to see all these wonderful responses!!! 😁

I've spoken to my husband, and we both agreed it is not possible now to make Aliyah, bc we have basically no money here as it is. No way we can make such a big move, to a foreign country, where we don't speak the language properly, with young kids without a proper savings, and plan and all that! It's unrealistic. But I think it's gonna be a goal of ours. When that becomes reality, it's too early to tell. But this post has definitely helped, and any more information would be greatly appreciated!! So when we do go, we have as much info as possible.

I have no clue where In Israel we'd move to. I don't think we've thought that far yet. I have good family friend in maale adumim and practically lived there when I was in Israel for the year, years ago. I liked it for some things, others not so much.

I don't think we'd love super close to Jerusalem city center, bc it's soooo crowded and expensive, although tempting! Living near the hotel so I can go daily like the old days would be amazing!! But again, with a family, and expenses so high, it's not practical.

I've visited yishuvs, and loved it! But it's soooo far removed from everything, I don't know if I'd like it as much in the long run.

I've been to Ramat beit shemesh a few times as well, but didn't get a real feel for it, so I wouldn't know anything of importance of that area. I think because it's so obstract a dream, don't even know when we'd realistically be able to move, the where in Israel we'd be moving to hasn't even been a discussion yet.
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:14 am
amother [ Gray ] wrote:
I'm not Yeshivish, but we are could you say modern Haredi, and send to modern Haredi schools (mostly working fathers, a mix of white and other colour shirts, longer sheitels, most families allow some videos, etc.). I do agree though that Yeshivish communities differ substantially from the US, and that makes fitting in a lot harder for children in that community. Then again I have friends from circles outside of my own, and we've all had our share, some less and some more, of at least 1 child struggling socially here, so I can't blame one community over another.

You're right that a lot has to do with the parents attitude. Then again, some kids are just smart, and they realise that despite towing the party line, their parents don't really buy into every new social rule or opinion they're expected to abide by as part of their community. Those kids sense the hypocrisyof it all, and it makes them question Yiddishkeit. It's those kids you need to watch out for, not necessarily your average go along to get along kid.


This post is so raw and painful, that I have no words. Hugs, Gray. I wish I could reach out to you.
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