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15 year old DD telling me how to parent.
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 4:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The question remains, given all the above background and confessions - how can I reclaim my position of authority without rubbing each other the wrong way? There must be a way. No? Help

I don't know exactly. I think there probably is, but it would be a gradual process. You guys got into your patterns over a long period of time, so it will probably take some time to build new patterns. I don't have concrete advice, and I don't claim to be an expert on teens as my children are still young. But I don't think I would try to flip everything over to perfect all at once.

Being willing to ask advice and introspect is a big first step.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 4:10 pm
OOTforlife wrote:
I'm also wondering if maybe you are more relaxed than you realize. I think most people would not describe a home where toys are frequently left out as "meticulous."

That's not me being judgy--toys are left out in my home frequently. But I don't think anyone considers my home meticulous and I'd never describe it that way.


I have a playroom so it's not like it's in her way. By meticulous I mean, my closest are very organized and I'm very on top of housework with a pretty rigid schedule. When I say I'm lax I don't mean with housework specifically with privileges and not responding harshly right away to a misconduct..
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 4:14 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The question remains, given all the above background and confessions - how can I reclaim my position of authority without rubbing each other the wrong way? There must be a way. No? Help

She sounds like a good kid.

I don't think you can go wrong with sincerity. You respect her and her views, you think she's a smart kid, but you have a lot more parenting experience than she does, there are a lot of reasons you do things the way you do, and you don't like being constantly criticized for it. So - tell her exactly that. Sounds like she's mature enough to get it. Not that it will be a magic cure, because she'll still be 15. But it might help.

Personally, I use sarcasm. Eg, "I'm so glad you're here to tell me everything I'm doing wrong, super helpful. Now, would you mind showing me the right way to clean the bathroom floor? I'll watch."

or, "Yeah, I know, I'm such a bad mom. Just look how my oldest turned out."

That works with my kids, but I could see it hurting some people's feelings... But if you guys joke around, making a joke of it might be a good way to make your point ("too much criticism, back off now") while still letting her save face.
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 4:20 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My daughter is the oldest and only girl and has a couple of younger brothers. She is extremely smart and is a good child by nature. I have a more relaxed parenting approach too parenting and lately she has been expressing that I'm too lax in my demands and discipline. It came to a point that we argue constantly. For example my 4.5 year old is lazy to go to the bathroom and sometimes starts in his pants and leaks a bit. I told him not to wait and made a progress chart. I also have him change himself which I feel is a natural consequence. My daughter insists that he needs to be punished for doing this and not be rewarded for not doing it... She gets upset if I don't respond to chutzpah from kids in a harsh way. My philosophy is, that I don't have to see and hear everything and not everything has to be made into a federal case. I know she is a teenager and sees things from a black and white perspective, and seriously wants to help... It is not coming from a bad place... She can't understand why I help him get dressed in the morning (he needs to catch a bus early) or why I don't punish him (4.5 yr old) for making small messes or not cleaning after himself right away... Sometimes I leave the toys out during the week and she says we have a crazy house. I happen to run a fairly meticulous home... How do I get her to let me do my own thing without hurting her self esteem and repressing her desires? We are in constant battles because if I don't discipline the way she thinks is right she will punish them herself! What am I doing wrong and how can we restore peace in my house?

The only chinuch issue I see is with your daughter.
Most important is to nurture the relationship with your children, don’t let her make you ruin that with your little ones.
Yes some structure is important but you’re doing great, changing himself is a natural consequence. Consequences are most effective when they’re small, even if child says they don’t care. She might understand all that only when she’s a mother herself.
But now she herself is crossing a boundary.
She needs to be told that one day she will iyh have her own children and will have a chance then to decide how to go about these things.
Not with her siblings.
If a messy house bothers her you can try to brainstorm together, like for example that nobody is allowed to go in her room or that when her friends come on Shabbos everyone makes an effort that she shouldn’t be embarrassed, but it’s your home, your decisions, your choices.
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 4:30 pm
I'm starting to think that maybe SHE craved more discipline and responsibility and is therefore trying to give them what she didn't get?

I failed to mention that my husband is the exact opposite. He's a very emotionally attuned and warm father, but sticks to his demands and doesn't let them get away with much. He demands much more of them in regards to housework. For instance on Shabbos when he's home they need to set the table, clear the table, sweep after meals and help with dishes and cleaning on Motzei Shabbos. He's barely home during the week so the rest of week I am in charge.

I may also not have set boundaries clearly enough with her. For instance, when I'm on the phone talking to others, she inserts her comments and disagrees with my opinion many times. For instance I'm relating a story to my sister and she had a different view she'll criticize me for not seeing it right. Or telling me, "it wasn't as bad as you make it sound". I am a very emotional type and she is not so emotional but more practical... What I basically want is to know how to set boundaries and not let her meddle into my conversations and respect my feelings and opinions the same way I respect hers... I know she is a hormonal teenager and will come to her senses but my other kids are noticing and starting to imitate her behavior in certain aspects. I don't know when to react to her or ignore her. Are there any basic guidelines that I can stick to? Or should I consult a professional?
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 4:45 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm starting to think that maybe SHE craved more discipline and responsibility and is therefore trying to give them what she didn't get?

I failed to mention that my husband is the exact opposite. He's a very emotionally attuned and warm father, but sticks to his demands and doesn't let them get away with much. He demands much more of them in regards to housework. For instance on Shabbos when he's home they need to set the table, clear the table, sweep after meals and help with dishes and cleaning on Motzei Shabbos. He's barely home during the week so the rest of week I am in charge.

I may also not have set boundaries clearly enough with her. For instance, when I'm on the phone talking to others, she inserts her comments and disagrees with my opinion many times. For instance I'm relating a story to my sister and she had a different view she'll criticize me for not seeing it right. Or telling me, "it wasn't as bad as you make it sound". I am a very emotional type and she is not so emotional but more practical... What I basically want is to know how to set boundaries and not let her meddle into my conversations and respect my feelings and opinions the same way I respect hers... I know she is a hormonal teenager and will come to her senses but my other kids are noticing and starting to imitate her behavior in certain aspects. I don't know when to react to her or ignore her. Are there any basic guidelines that I can stick to? Or should I consult a professional?

There’s only one rule in the house and that is that everyone has to listen to Mom and Dad.
And if they don’t there’s a consequence.
Children need that rule for safety.
It is very important to listen to parents.
A child, even a teenager, can do dangerous things if they don’t listen to you. They can’t always see the big picture themselves.

So you can turn it into a listening to mom rule:
“When I speak on the phone, it’s my conversation. Don’t interfere”.
Etc.
And if she doesn’t listen there’s a consequence. Every single time. Be consistent.
Consequences are best when they’re very small.
(Like for example: Now I’m going to finish this conversation in my room and you’ll have to watch the kids until I’m done).
You have to get your position of authority as mom back.

You don’t want to be punishing all day so do it gradually and ignore the rest. The atmosphere between you should still be positive most of the time.
But little by little you’ll get Your authority back.
She might be surprised in the beginning but it’ll be good fir her in the long run.
A child is like your best friend BUT they need to listen to you. That’s the difference. Even a talented smart A+ child.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 5:15 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The only time she had to extend herself a bit was in my first trimester of pregnancy lately. She normally helps a bit only on Erev shabbos as I have cleaning help twice a week and she has almost no responsibilities during the week. She still helps less than the average girl her age being that she has only 3 younger brothers, youngest 4.5 old... She does take school very seriously and is a straight A student. Of course this involves lots of studying and helping half her class study as well, she is flooded with calls before a test or assignment... She reads a ton in her spare time.


But does she watch the kids or babysit for you often?
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 5:46 pm
Tell her that you are the mother and it’s not appropriate for her to give you parenting advice. You love her and she’s amazing but it’s not her role. Gently repeat when necessary
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:38 pm
This is very typical 15-year-old behavior! You were not wrong to let her give you her opinions in the past -- that's a great way to open up conversations about parenting styles and priorities.

I have two suggestions:

1. Develop what they call "command presence" in the military. Speak and hold yourself in an authoritative manner, even when she is giving you advice. Learn to say, "That's an interesting idea. I'll consider that for the future." Rinse and repeat.

2. Use my neighbor as an example. Her 11-year-old DD wanted a pet seal. Instead of telling her that a pet seal was a ridiculous idea, she helped her daughter research everything about keeping a seal in captivity. Of course, her DD reached the conclusion that a seal couldn't live in a little pond in the backyard.

Do the same with parenting. Find articles for your DD on positive reinforcement or similar parenting topics and discuss them with her. She'll gradually realize that maybe mom has some smarts and she'll learn a few things for future reference as well!
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Wed, Feb 19 2020, 11:12 pm
ora_43 wrote:
I have to disagree with some of the posts here. I guess it could be that she sometimes has a point, but more likely, she's just... a teenager. Teenagers generally think they know a lot more than they actually do, and for teenage firstborns, that tends to include thinking they know all about how to raise younger kids.

(but seriously guys, she thinks a 4-year-old boy should be responsible for getting himself ready for an early schoolbus, and should be punished for wetting his pants. Those are not brilliant insights from an objective third party, those are the kind of thoughts a person has when they are old enough to think of themselves as an adult, but young enough to have no awareness of just how young 4 is.)

I think worrying about "hurting her self-esteem and repressing her desires" is out of place. Not that you need to be harsh with her. But she's old enough to be treated more or less like an adult. IOW - set a boundary and insist she stick to it, just like with any other adult. You wouldn't let your sister endlessly correct your parenting, right?

Explain yourself once, if you want - politely but firmly - and then refuse to engage. "Noted." "I'll take that into consideration." "I'm the mother, and I have my reasons for doing things this way. When you have kids, you'll be free to do things differently." Whatever. Pick one, and repeat it until she storms off in the kind of righteous indignation only teenage girls can manage.

Her comments may not be coming from a bad place but it's still not good for her to get the impression that it's OK to talk to people like that.

(Of course if it's something that directly affects her, like a sibling hitting her or screaming outside her door, that's a different story, and in a case like that I'd make a bit more of a show of parental discipline. But with general stuff like another kid's pants-wetting she gets zero say.)

Agreed. I have an 18 yr old DS who thinks he knows everything. He does no chores at all and he's post HS so no school either. He LOVES to criticize my and DH's parenting because he's an obnoxious teenager. He's not overworked, he has no responsibilities to my toddler.
I politely say "thank you. I'm sure when you have your own children you'll do a much better job"
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soap suds




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 12:29 am
ora_43 wrote:
She sounds like a good kid.

... Personally, I use sarcasm. Eg, "I'm so glad you're here to tell me everything I'm doing wrong, super helpful. Now, would you mind showing me the right way to clean the bathroom floor? I'll watch."...


LOL LOL LOL Love it! Can't wait to use it on my 13 yr. old.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 1:12 am
OP, you should punish her.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 4:16 am
When I was 15 I knew EVERYTHING and was CONVINCED I would be a MUCH better parent than my parents. After all, I had it all worked out.

Sounds like typical teen behavior.

I liked when my mother would share parenting insights with me.
Like, give me a bit of the thought process behind her decisions. Ex, 4 years old is still young to be getting totally dressed on their own. Also, I think its important for your brother to feel taken care of in the morning because mornings are hard for him.

It taught me a lot about parenting.

Now as an adult, I can safely say that I currently know NOTHING and am not at all CONVINCED that I'm doing anything right😀
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 4:30 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
OP, you should punish her.


15 is a bit old to punish.
But I like the idea of talking to her in a military command voice, full of confidence.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 7:12 am
Did you hold her, when she was their age, to a different standard than you hold her younger siblings to?

If so, you need to explain why. You raised her with a very set value system and now you changed it and she sees it as sheer laziness and perhaps favoritism. You taught her the rules and now you are pulling the rug out from under her.

If you have been consistent and this is the same as you raised her, then you need to ask yourself why she is saying this.

Like other posters said, if you put her in a parenting/ babysitting/ supervisory role and she handles them differently then your rules, inconsistent with hers, simply make her job harder. And for instance, if you don't make them do homework before they play, and then you go out and leave her in charge, you are essentially asking her to make them do their homework, moving the burden from your shoulders to hers. Of course she would ask you to do it yourself and be stricter, so that she doesn't have to deal with the fallout.

Personally my eldest (younger than yours) does the same - tells me what I should do - and that is a time-out offense. You don't tell me what to do, period. If you have questions ask me later, I'll be glad to explain.

However, my eldest is not old enough to babysit and we don't allow discipline unless it's life-and-death (slap the baby's hand if the baby touches an outlet and I won't be there in less than four seconds). Otherwise we do not allow "parenting" tasks, even child-initiated, because DC is just not old enough yet. So when we say "time out, you're not allowed to tell us what to do" it is consistent - you are not the parent, do not function as the parent, may not tell the parent what to do.
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 8:36 am
With putting the toys away, for example, I would say "When you have your own home in the future, you're invited to keep the toys as tidy as you like. It's not so important to me to have the toys put away at the end of every day. If it really bothers you that much, can you clear them up yourself please."
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 10:45 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
15 is a bit old to punish.

In most cases, yes. But if she's punishing her siblings, she shouldn't feel immune to the same treatment.
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Amalia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 11:12 am
There is so much insight here on this thread, it’s incredible!

Thank you again, OP, for starting it! Your further posts show you as an person who is able and willing to reflect on herself, and is humble enough to welcome other people’s opinions and ideas - now you only need to figure out a good way to deal with your daughter’s, which is the whole point of this thread!

Emerald amother, I think you are the most on-target here. Thank you for writing your posts! As always, thank you to Fox and Ora! And slateblue amother, I know exactly what you mean, I am right there with you!

I actually copied all these responses to my computer, to be able to think about them and to come back to read them, as I need to. Thank you!
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ChossidMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 20 2020, 12:00 pm
Oh, this so resonates. My eldest daughter is always criticizing the way I deal with my younger kids(and the youngest is 14, not 4, but he's challenging). It ain't easy. The bottom line is that I am the mother and I have more knowledge and experience than her (and sometimes, alot less emotional strength). I also don't like to muddy the waters and be hard on my kids all the time. I, too, don't have to see everything and catch every single wrongdoing. She likes to notice everything and comment too. What can I say? It's very challenging.
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