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Do you live in an impossibly big house?
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 2:57 pm
amother [ Teal ] wrote:
So please explain to me why there are countless upon countless of threads about women who are jealous of others money, houses, vacations, pesach hotels, designer clothing, designer strollers....
But there isn't a SINGLE thread about women who are jealous of those with large families??
The poster asked a question, the answer isn't always what we want to hear.


Good question ...hmmmm
I'm thinking of a few possible answers. If I have time later I'll post more
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 3:06 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
LOL it was NOT jealousy. I’m rolling


So why exactly do very large families bother you. Especially when the overwhelming majority of posters who grew up in large families had very positive experience???
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 3:40 pm
mig100 wrote:
So why exactly do very large families bother you. Especially when the overwhelming majority of posters who grew up in large families had very positive experience???


I guess this site is a different demographic than my personal life, because, as I’ve said before, I’ve never met anyone from a large family who wanted one themselves. Who didn’t feel lost in the shuffle, overburdened with responsibility, and struggling for space or money or both. But that’s just me.

Also, I was replying the post that said the thread reeked of jealousy, which it most definitely did not.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 3:42 pm
mig100 wrote:
So why exactly do very large families bother you. Especially when the overwhelming majority of posters who grew up in large families had very positive experience???


I'm not the person you asked, but people have critical opinions on all kinds of things without being jealous.
For example, I can be critical of married couples who are both high powered career people, and I can state my opinion that I think that's not a good way to raise children. I can do this without being jealous of people with high powered careers (this is just an example, not necessarily my opinion).

Same with huge families. I can criticize the concept of huge families and the way they function, the same way I can criticize the concept of a family with two CEOs as parents and latchkey kids. My criticism doesn't mean I am actually dying of jealousy.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:04 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I'm not the person you asked, but people have critical opinions on all kinds of things without being jealous.
For example, I can be critical of married couples who are both high powered career people, and I can state my opinion that I think that's not a good way to raise children. I can do this without being jealous of people with high powered careers (this is just an example, not necessarily my opinion).

Same with huge families. I can criticize the concept of huge families and the way they function, the same way I can criticize the concept of a family with two CEOs as parents and latchkey kids. My criticism doesn't mean I am actually dying of jealousy.


Yes people are critical why? What do they benefit from spending their energy that way

I say it's either jealousy or lifting their frail and shattered ego
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:06 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
I guess this site is a different demographic than my personal life, because, as I’ve said before, I’ve never met anyone from a large family who wanted one themselves. Who didn’t feel lost in the shuffle, overburdened with responsibility, and struggling for space or money or both. But that’s just me.

Also, I was replying the post that said the thread reeked of jealousy, which it most definitely did not.


Yes ur life ( or a handful of peopl u are thinking of) obviously has a demographic. Reread ur thread

U still d idnt answer my question
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:14 pm
mig100 wrote:
Yes people are critical why? What do they benefit from spending their energy that way

I say it's either jealousy or lifting their frail and shattered ego


Why is it so hard to understand that people can be critical without being jealous or having a shattered ego?

You ask how do people benefit from spending their energy that way. Because they enjoy it, or they feel it's important. Why are people passionate about any concept in culture or society? Because for some people, that's part of being an engaged part of the community.

I really don't understand your take on this. People are passionately critical about all sorts of family structures. Does that mean they are actually jealous of them? Are you, mig100, not critical of any type of family? You think all families are the same?

Let me make my examples extreme, since you don't seem to get the point. If you are passionately critical about welfare moms who have 10 babies from 5 different fathers, does that mean you are actually jealous of them? If you are passionately critical about two g@y men who have children with a surrogate mother, does that mean you have a fragile ego?
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avrahamama




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:18 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
You think all families are the same?


Anna Karenina anyone?!
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:18 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Do you feel attacked when people are critical of life choices you approve of? Why is it so hard to understand that people can be critical without being jealous or having a shattered ego?

You ask how do people benefit from spending their energy that way. Because they enjoy it, or they feel it's important. Why are people passionate about any concept in culture or society? Because for some people, that's part of being an engaged part of the community.

I really don't understand your take on this. People are passionately critical about all sorts of family structures. Does that mean they are actually jealous of them? Are you, mig100, not critical of any type of family? You think all families are the same?


where do I feel attacked?
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:22 pm
mig100 wrote:
where do I feel attacked?


I deleted that sentence right before you wrote this. But originally, I wrote it, because it seems like you feel a need to lash back. You are claiming that everyone who criticizes must be jealous, or must have a fragile ego. Those are personal insults in a theoretical debate.

Usually when people lash back with personal insults, it's because they feel attacked in some way.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:29 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I deleted that sentence right before you wrote this. But originally, I wrote it, because it seems like you feel a need to lash back. You are claiming that everyone who criticizes must be jealous, or must have a fragile ego. Those are personal insults in a theoretical debate.

Usually when people lash back with personal insults, it's because they feel attacked in some way.


why would I feel attacked if someone bashes huge families- I dont come from one or have one ( yet .. I wish)

oh- I do get defensive when people bash the torah lifestyle since its something I value- thats true. maybe thats why I defended large families.

you still didnt answer my question.
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avrahamama




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:34 pm
mig100 wrote:
why would I feel attacked if someone bashes huge families- I dont come from one or have one ( yet .. I wish)

oh- I do get defensive when people bash the torah lifestyle since its something I value- thats true. maybe thats why I defended large families.

you still didnt answer my question.



BZH you should be blessed with lots of healthy children, the right amount of house, and fulfill all the brachot of the Torah.

Actually, revealed goodness for all of us! Babies (however many we want), money, real estate, and mostly we should all feel like we made HKBH proud!!!!!
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:35 pm
mig100 wrote:
why would I feel attacked if someone bashes huge families- I dont come from one or have one ( yet .. I wish)

oh- I do get defensive when people bash the torah lifestyle since its something I value- thats true. maybe thats why I defended large families.

you still didnt answer my question.


You can feel attacked if someone criticizes your opinions. It doesn't have to be your lifestyle. Otherwise - I don't understand why you would hurl irrelevant personal insults like 'fragile ego'.

You can defend large families and explain why they are best, and why you believe it's the true Torah lifestyle. That's great. But that still doesn't explain why you can't wrap your mind around the fact that maybe not everyone secretly wants a huge family, and not everyone who criticizes is seething with envy.

And I have no idea what question I didn't answer. I'm off to bed now though, so I probably won't see it for a while.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:38 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I'm not the person you asked, but people have critical opinions on all kinds of things without being jealous.
For example, I can be critical of married couples who are both high powered career people, and I can state my opinion that I think that's not a good way to raise children. I can do this without being jealous of people with high powered careers (this is just an example, not necessarily my opinion).

Same with huge families. I can criticize the concept of huge families and the way they function, the same way I can criticize the concept of a family with two CEOs as parents and latchkey kids. My criticism doesn't mean I am actually dying of jealousy.


I can also be critical of extremely large houses without being jealous.

1. They are bad for the enviroment
2. They make other people (lesser people than me) jealous
3. You spend less time with family members since so spread out
4. Takes a lot of time to clean.
5. Raises property prices for other people who can barely afford a house and may have to move out of the area.
6. You could spend the extra money on tzedaka.
7. makes your children used to a very high standard of living
and so on.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:42 pm
mig100 wrote:
Yes people are critical why? What do they benefit from spending their energy that way

I say it's either jealousy or lifting their frail and shattered ego


Was this your question? I'm certainly not going to rehash the different opinions of posters on that thread as to why they were critical. We are already very off topic.

I already answered this question earlier up, when I said people can have passionate, critical opinions about all sorts of topics. Being critical about a general societal phenomenon just means you have opinions about society and aren't a walking robot.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:50 pm
Raisin wrote:
I can also be critical of extremely large houses without being jealous.

1. They are bad for the enviroment
2. They make other people (lesser people than me) jealous
3. You spend less time with family members since so spread out
4. Takes a lot of time to clean.
5. Raises property prices for other people who can barely afford a house and may have to move out of the area.
6. You could spend the extra money on tzedaka.
7. makes your children used to a very high standard of living
and so on.


Yes indeed. I personally am not a fan of huge houses myself and have no desire to live in one. In fact, I think they are irresponsible (your reason number one). I also wouldn't want to raise my family in such a vacuum (reason number 3). I have experience with larger homes and most of them definitely do not promote family closeness.

One can be against something without being jealous or suffering from ego issues.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 4:53 pm
avrahamama wrote:
BZH you should be blessed with lots of healthy children, the right amount of house, and fulfill all the brachot of the Torah.

Actually, revealed goodness for all of us! Babies (however many we want), money, real estate, and mostly we should all feel like we made HKBH proud!!!!!


Amen . Thank you for this beautiful post
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 5:34 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Yes indeed. I personally am not a fan of huge houses myself and have no desire to live in one. In fact, I think they are irresponsible (your reason number one). I also wouldn't want to raise my family in such a vacuum (reason number 3). I have experience with larger homes and most of them definitely do not promote family closeness.

One can be against something without being jealous or suffering from ego issues.


If depends on the family. There are no territory fights. There is no waiting for bathrooms. No one is banging on the door for someone to get out. There are different entertainment areas for friends. This works out great when the kids have friends of the opposite gender. There are more than enough guest rooms with en suite bathrooms to host a big family. There's enough closets and coat closets and shoe closets to avoid clutter. The kids have a quiet place to study without anyone around. There is more than enough exercise equipment and room to learn. No one gets priority and no one gets edged out.

Our family tends to gather together wherever my husband and I are. We are a very close family and make time to spend with each other. Having space is a lubricant so people don't rub up wrong against each other.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 12:16 am
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
If depends on the family. There are no territory fights. There is no waiting for bathrooms. No one is banging on the door for someone to get out. There are different entertainment areas for friends. This works out great when the kids have friends of the opposite gender. There are more than enough guest rooms with en suite bathrooms to host a big family. There's enough closets and coat closets and shoe closets to avoid clutter. The kids have a quiet place to study without anyone around. There is more than enough exercise equipment and room to learn. No one gets priority and no one gets edged out.

Our family tends to gather together wherever my husband and I are. We are a very close family and make time to spend with each other. Having space is a lubricant so people don't rub up wrong against each other.


Yes, it depends on the family, and on the house. Some huge houses are designed so that the family lives in a few rooms at the back, and all the rest is for show, or for use 3 times a year. Although it could be a cozy set up at the back, it's still environmentally problematic.

Anyway, I wasnt talking about a house with a living room and a family room. That is enough to entertain friends of different genders, especially since many sit in the kid's room or in the kitchen anyway, or outside in the yard (I dont separate kids' friends by gender, but as you see there's more than enough seating areas to do that in a regular house. All you need is 2 areas).

Does one really need 4 sitting areas and a developed basement in order to host one's children's friends without a fight? This in addition to a yard? Does it make life so much more pleasant? For me, it would be the opposite. I like the hustle and bustle when the little ones and their friends are all together with the teens and theirs. I like the dynamic and the interaction. If anyone wants privacy, they can go to their room (if they share a room, then that requires negotiation). Or outside.

Things I like in big house - lots of storage, as you said. Although one must be careful not to accumulate a ton of useless stuff just because you have the space. Also, lots of bathrooms - although I think an ensuite for each child is excessive. Kids also need to learn to share. And who cleans all those bathrooms? But yes, it's good to have a couple of extra full bathrooms in the public areas if you have a big family.

A quiet place to study? Yes, that's important. If they have their own room, then that's their study area. If not, yes, it's good to have one room set aside as a library. But it's unnecessary to have a seforim room, and a separate kids' study room. They can study in the same room. If your kids are all bigger, like mine, then the dining table becomes the study place, and everyone maintains some quiet. Over the years I've noticed many kids in many families prefer studying at the dining table anyway. I certainly did, although I had my own room with my own desk.

Guests? I've been a guest for 50 yrs without ever having an ensuite, and I've hosted for 25 yrs without offering an ensuite. It's never bothered anyone. Sure it's a nice luxurious touch, but it's far from necessary, unless you host family from overseas for months at a time.

I just think once you add all these luxurious but unnecessary touches, you end up with a HUGE house. I've been in some of these houses and actually lived in one many years back. More and more house doesn't make for a better house. In many of these houses, when you call out to someone in the house, they can't hear you. You have to phone them or use an intercom or something. That's too big IMO.

To say nothing of the fact that you usually need a full time cleaner for a huge house. I wouldn't want a cleaner at my place everyday, I value my privacy way too much.
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:48 am
I’ve been a guest too and hosted too and it’s a huge difference for the guest and the host when there’s an en-suite bathroom for the guest with some private space to spread out. Think married kids coming with 3-4 little ones or more. Think of the son/ daughter in law... it’s very very nice to be able to give them an en-suite or two attached rooms with a bathroom in between.
The only con I see is the need to have a daily cleaner. I value my privacy.
But truthfully even a big house need not be cleaned more than twice a wk, especially since there’s less traffic each in 8-10 bathrooms vs when you have only 3-4.
The daily housekeepers don’t normally clean all day everyday. They’re usually pretty busy with laundry, meal prep and meal cleanup.- which is same regardless the size of house or with watching the babies which is also same regardless of the house size.
People who have daily help don’t necessarily clean all their bathrooms and wash all their floors every day weather it’s a big, average or huge size house.
Having a daily housekeeper or not really depends on your ability to cook and clean up the kitchen after wards yourself each day and watch kids yourself everyday.
Then help can take care of laundry and cleanup in just two days a week, the mornings for cleaning, afternoons for laundry as an example.
But if you use your big house to host functions and do lots of entertaining yes you need a crew of helpers, which definitely take away from the cozy atmosphere and privacy in the home.
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