Just did something so painful

33055

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 8:48 am

DrMom wrote:

So to me (and granted this is my own perspective because I know many righteous observant women who wear pants and/or go to pizza shops), the most alarming aspect of this is the drugs.

I realize that your daughter wearing pants is painful for you because it is totally unaccepted in you community, but I think you need to practice risk mitigation.

If there are really drug addicts hanging out at this place at that hour, there is no way I would drive my daughter there - despite what any "expert" tells me.

How about you ask your daughter to invite her friend (pants and all) over to your house and order a pizza for them? Or can you drive them to and from the pizza shop before the undesirable element begins to hang out there?

Perhaps if you try to think of some solutions, you will not feel so powerless and in despair.

I read through the thread. I agree somewhat enough Dr Mom. The pendulum has swung in the opposite direction for complete tolerance of rebellious teens. Not so long ago, it was kick them out, so they don't corrupt the rest of the family.

I see kids being destroyed with the no boundaries approach. I am not thinking of religion. I am thinking of enabling whatever reckless behavior they are into at the moment.

A common sense approach is called for. If OP's daughter is a younger teen like 16, there's no way that she should be first leaving the house at midnight. This would not be right in good secular families either. If she is an adult, then it's a different story.

There should be firm lines of what is acceptable. Drugs are not acceptable. Open communication is good. But tolerating permanent destruction to the body should not be. I would stress schooling so the child has a future outside the frum world.

amother

Lavender

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 8:59 am

Hugs OP

I was in a similar situation and I'm not completely out of it as I do not know how things will end.

I don't know what I would have done in your exact situation but one rule I tell DD is "You can do whatever you want and I won't stop you. But I will never help you do something that I think is damaging to you. Even if I know that you can and will do it anyway."

When to apply that rule is tricky but is does have a sobering effect. And refusing to help her by telling her "I'm not helping you do something that I think is damaging to you" when she knows I have her best interest at heart does not seem to hurt our relationship.

Hashem should help you and her and your decisions about how to deal with her

amother

Gray

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 12:10 pm

Sickeningly painful op, no mom should have to deal with such gut wrenching nightmarish angst and decisions...being torn between knowing what’s best for your kid now combined with dealing with the pressure of an opposing spouse.

As someone that’s been watching a close family member self destruct and grappling with the insane worry, guilt, shame and confusion I just want you to know you’re validated. And acceptance, some days that word just makes me puke cuz accepting such insanity just feels so wrong and so against every fiber of my being.

To those posters Getting distracted with the point of pants or skirts being ok or not, ops point probably is when a child turns away from the way he or she was raised there must be a tremendous amount of inner pain and turmoil within him or her. Let’s not get nitty gritty here.

Last but not least there’s a large amount of support out there, op! Kesher nafshi shabbaton for parents of struggling teens has been life changing. Batya ruddels book...

Hang in there and stay strong...yes strong doesn’t feel like strong but you’re best off keeping the pieces together as best as you can for everyone’s sake.

amother

Peach

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 1:03 pm

Op I would also recommend joining the extremely rebellious teens forum. I'm not saying not to post here as well, but there you will get a very different level of familiarity with the actual reality of what you are dealing with. Here you will get some of that, but also (well-intentioned) misunderstanding of what is actually involved in parenting a teen like this.

amother

Pearl

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 6:42 pm

When dd was rebeling, I was told "You are no longer her mother. You cannot tell her what to do and where to go. Just make sure she knows she is always loved and you will always love her-no matter what. And be prepared for her to come home pregnant, beaten and drug addicted. And welcome her then with love and acceptance"

This was so hard. By day, dd looked the perfect Bais Yakov girl in her uniform for school. At night and weekends, she was dating a 25 year old non jewish guy. (she was 16). For all the grief she caused me, I didn't know a fraction of what she was doing. That she told me later, after she came back to us (BH not pregnant, beaten or drug addicted). My grey hairs come frrom the stories she told me later. About how she snuck out at all hours, left her pjs downstairs and hidden so she could pretend she just came down for a drink if I 'caught' her coming in in the middle of the night. Changed into jeans after she left our house.

What actually brought her back was my not asking her who what when where and why. I just pretended that what she did was fine with me, and didn't say anything-just bit my tongue-hard. She somehow took that as I don't care or love her anymore and she thought she would lose her family if she continued. If she had to choose between the 2, she chose family. I'm not sure how she reached that conclusion, but I'm glad she came back to us.

As for driving her to the pizza store, dd had a license. I was told to let her use my car for what she wanted (every instinct said 'no! don't make it easy for her'). She would do what she wanted anyway. At least with the car she can get home and not have to rely on anyone else if things got bad or scary.

Today, dd is married, frum and expecting her 3rd child.

OP, I hope that sooner rather than later your dd will turn around and come back to you. And you can give chizzuk to other mothers going thru this.

amother

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:04 pm

Thank you so much to everyone for all your advice and sympathy and hugs. Your support has given me so much chizik in the past 20 or so hours. I had a pretty calm day thanks to all of you.

To those who recommended that I join the rebellious teens forum, thank you for that idea. I didnt realize there was one. I applied to join and I'm waiting for approval.

Amother chocolate, thank you for the teens' perspective, it gave me a lot to think about.

Amother lavender, I like what you said about not helping her do something that can harm her, I'm going to discuss that with my mentors and see what they think.

To those who suggested discussing s*x and birth control, you're all right. Hanging out with other at risk teens is a new step for her, I guess it's time to have that conversation. Ouch!

To those who recommended that I just explain our new reality to my husband, I wish. I begged him to come with me to someone who's an expert on at risk kids, but he knows better.....about this and everything else. This is just one of the many issues in our marriage, it's a miracle the rest of our kids are doing well.

I was feeling so alone last night, I cant discuss this with my husband and there was no one I could call that late, and so I turned to you ladies and you all answered the call.

THANK YOU!

amother

Indigo

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hugs, OP. May Hashem give you koach and moach.

When someone said about my son "you will still see nachas from him, I always said to myself "I see nachas from him today". and no matter how difficult, some good feeling about this child welled up from somewhere.

and when hubby said "how can I not be constantly angry at him? he gives me so much tzaar," I said he "he is my OTZAAR"...

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That is great to hear, thank you for sharing. But it would be better if you tell us how old she is as the way you would handle it would be different based on age. Otherwise, you may want to stick to just speaking to your mentors who hopefully know your daughter so they can guide you through this.

Cheiny

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The pizza shop itself is fine but at midnight most of its customers are kids at risk so it's not a good environment. Yes, the pants hurt, they symbolize the rejection of everything important to us as frum Jews. (Yes I am aware that in mo communities pants are fine, that doesn't help me).

I'm more nervous about the physical dangers, there are kids on drugs who hang out there, it's late at night, etc. And I'm also worried about her spiritually, cuz that's what we parents do, we worry.

I’m so sorry, that must be incredibly hard as a parent. Would she and her friends) considering going to Our Place to hang out instead ? Not sure where you’re located...

amother

Khaki

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:50 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

A word advice from someone who used to be there as a teen. I was very rebellious, always pushing boundaries and testing. I was emotionally grappling with a lot and I'm a deep intellectual. I wish my parents could have accepted me fully. When I felt like they pushed expectations on me, it made me rebel more. I know it is hard not to show disappointment about the religious stuff but she doesn't care about that. She needs your love so so much. She needs to know you care about her for who she is, regardless of what she believes.

I also think it is important to tell her that she is entitled to make her own choices and emphasize that you want her to be a healthy person. Leave religion out of it for now. If you equate skirts with drugs, it all goes out the windows. Explain you want her to be safe and stable, that she should be responsible for the big things. Talk to her about drugs and boys. When you mix religion in, she isn't getting the right messages since she dismisses it all. I was so sheltered and just wanted to fool around since I was lost. I needed someone to sit down and explain that wearing pants to express myself isn't the same as sleeping around. It is hard to go from a black and white world of strict boundaries and find your way in a world when no one talks to you about the dangers. I know it is scary but be there for her as a parent and try to see that you can love and accept her for being herself even if it hurts your beliefs.

I too was otd and trying lots of bad stuff from late teens until years later. I got in with a bad group of friends who brought me down and was vulnerable and open to it because of a very painful home situation. I came back on my own b”H because I finally realized the escape from my pain I was looking for didn’t fulfill me-it made me feel worse. I hope your dd will come back soon and keep up your love and support.

Cheiny

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:53 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Wow! What an inspiring story with a great ending! Hopefully same for OP’s dd!

happyness

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 7:56 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

It's so hard. I have a sister who went through a tough time. She stopped believing in hashem, landed up in the hospital a few times, did drugs etc... but I told her she's still my sister and I won't ever turn my back on her. We hung out a lot, I didn't allow her to do drugs or other inappropriate things around me or my kids. Now it's a few years later and she is slowly finding her way back. Loving and accepting them does help. But at the same time as a parent it's so hard to go through it.

Aubergine, I would love to connect. I am in a similar situation. Can you pm me ?

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 8:45 pm

Op, I’m amazed at your courage and strength! I somehow relate to you, although my situation is different, hub is OTD.

Although it’s not the same, I feel your pain so much. I wish I can grab you through the screen and give you a big hug!!

I also received lots of support here a few years ago. I hope you’re having guidance irl too. Sending you lots of love!

Hug

amother

cornflower

Sun, Nov 17 2019, 10:02 pm

I wish you could be in touch with avi fishoff.
He could guide you and your husband. He will also explain to your husband why it’s so important for both of you to be on the same page.
In addition, he will probably tell you that you did the right thing by driving your daughter and that you should continue in that matter when you will deal with similar scenarios.
Your husband needs to hear this from someone who is an expert with rebellious teens.
It will be easier for you when he will be on the same side as you are.
It can’t take the pain away but it can make this tekufa much lighter while you are going through this.
You are not alone (unfortunately ). This is the makkah of our generation. Almost every family has or knows someone who is effected.
It’s not because you did anything wrong!
It’s because this is what Hashem has planned for certain families.
With Hashems help you will see the light at the end of the tunnel and you will have nachas from this daughter.
Never give up hope and never stop davening. Hug