New guidelines regarding Eye Drops and Vitamin K

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Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations

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amother

Fuchsia

Wed, Feb 26 2020, 11:22 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

For Decades, the Tobacco Industry hired SCIENTISTS who denied that smoking causes
cancer.

Fuchsia, do you know what kind of studies CONCLUSIVELY PROVED that smoking
causes cancer?

prospective cohort study.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Feb 26 2020, 11:28 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Many people don't know that eye drops are mostly unnecessary for many frum mothers. It's unfortunate, but no use crying over spilled milk. At least going forward you now know that in NY you have nothing to fear by denying them.

You don’t want to find out the hard way that they were necessary for you by your kid going blind. Would be an awful way to find out your husband cheated on you. It happens. It’s not worth the risk. It’s a one time dose of antibiotics. And yes it happens to many frum people too.

#BestBubby

Wed, Feb 26 2020, 11:45 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

prospective cohort study.

They were Smoker vs Non-Smoker Studies - the exact studies that CDC refuses to do.
CDC says it is "unethical" to do a prospective Vax vs UnVax study but there is no reason
not to do a RETROSPECTIVE Vax vs UnVax Study.

LittleDucky

Wed, Feb 26 2020, 11:46 pm

There are some major issues with retrospective studies.
- convenience sampling
- prone to selection bias
- recall bias
- confounding that they cannot prevent
- you need a large sample size, especially since severe outcomes are generally rare.
- it doesn't measure everything. It is a limited study and isn't conclusive.

Plus others but I can't recall so late at night everything I learned in the college statistics course or that graduate school course I took on creating studies... (And yes I got an A in both).

So since people who are willing to participate in such a study are likely to:
- have a predisposition or family history of some of these side effects. Kid 1 has autism or a seizure disorder so Mom is less likely to vaccinate kid 2 if she believes it was caused by vaccines.
- have other lifestyle changes that may impact the study. Maybe it was the organic food, natural cleaners in the home, pro- exercise philosophy, anti-microwave using, anti aluminum foil pans etc that made it less likely to have a reaction? Or the fact that they don't believe in antibiotics? Or that they ate vegan/hormone free/vegetarian/raw food/paleo etc? We can't account for everything in a study...

Therefore it is hard for such a study to be conclusive. They can't do randomized double blind studies- besides knowing whether or not you got a vaccine , various ethics come into play. Can we ethically withhold a vaccine from someone who wants it? In kids? "Oh it's ok to not know if you are protected from measles during an outbreak..."
It's not like Tylenol which they can give a sugar placebo pill and the risk factor involved is just a headache.

I could go on but too tired this late at night...I have work in the morning.

#BestBubby

Wed, Feb 26 2020, 11:55 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

The only real problem would be selection bias. People who don't vaccinate are more likely to eat organic foods. Parents who don't vaccinate are more likely to have a child who was vaccine injured.

But this is still the best way to settle the question.

If autism was only 1:10,000 in unvaccinated children while autism is 1:50 in vaccinated children, that would be conclusive that vaccines cause autism.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:17 am

#BestBubby wrote:

the CDC refuses to do Smoker vs Non-Smoker Studies?

we're going in circles.

#BestBubby

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:20 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

the CDC refuses to do Smoker vs Non-Smoker Studies?

we're going in circles.

The CDC refuses to do Vax vs UnVax study.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:22 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The CDC refuses to do Vax vs UnVax study.

we're back to square one.

#BestBubby

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:29 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

we're back to square one.

Fuchsia, was it not Smoker vs UnSmoker studies that conclusively proved that
smoking causes cancer?

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:34 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Fuchsia, was it not Smoker vs UnSmoker studies that conclusively proved that
smoking causes cancer?

Yes a prospective cohort study (which included smokers and nonsmokers in the study) proved that smoking causes cancer.

#BestBubby

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:49 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Yes a prospective cohort study (which included smokers and nonsmokers in the study) proved that smoking causes cancer.

Since the CDC refuses to do a prospective Vax vs UnVax study claiming unethical, the
next best study is a Retrospective Vax vs UnVax Study. Even though that raises no
ethical concerns, the CDC refuses to do one.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 12:54 am

#BestBubby wrote:

again, circles.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 1:10 am

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I sure have heard it all. And I'm really sick of bogus science endangering everyone else.

The science is clear and no one has a right to force their choice on others, purposely and proudly violating guidelines and safety norms, telling those who have children at risk (or who are at risk themselves) that the worries are not legitimate and that if anything happens that's just evolution.

They may claim they are just doing what's best for their children but if you question them you realize that they have nothing behind their beliefs except virulent anti-vax sentiments, selfishness, and a lack of ability to take responsibility for doing their part to protect society's most vulnerable.

PS before the measles outbreak I DID believe that anti-vaxxers want what's best for their children and I sympathized with them. But the insensitivity and sheer selfishness that went on - and the complete and total ignorance and inability to understand science - during that year-plus-long outbreak has lost them all credibility and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that emotions are behind the anti-vax movement - not logic.

Emotions are nice but should play no part in public health decisions.

Do you eat fish in pregnancy? If so how much? Supposed to eat up to 2x/week if at all. Why? Because of Mercury.. Guess what amount of aluminum is in vitamin k though. Much much much higher amounts and somehow it safe?

#BestBubby

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 1:15 am

It is obvious why the CDC is refusing to do a Vax vs UnVax Study.

The CDC knows such a study would prove that vaccines causes autism, allergies, asthma,
diabetes, epilepsy, cancer, etc. CDC is trying to COVER UP the harm vaccines cause.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 1:17 am

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

I am very happy then NYS is giving more space for parents to make decisions regarding their child's care. But as someone who works in a midwife's office, I beg all parents to do full research on the Vitamin K shot. Unfortunately, there are babies who literally bleed through their diapers and by then its too late. The best outcome is that they get huge doses of vit k, way more then what they would have received with the injection. There is no way to know for sure that your baby will be ok. Yes there are possible side effects too. Yet, none of the babies in our practice have had a reaction to the shot, while we did have an episode of a baby bleeding almost to death.
Again do your research, but don't think that it cannot happen to you...
May Hashem protect us all!

What about when someone with severe vitamin k deficiency due to liver issues comes in to have an emergency procedure. Vitamin k is given in large amounts and barely raises the level. If it were so effective -would make levels go up well. This is clearly not the solution. And hey, how many people die from sepsis and high fevers? Way more than vkbd . No preventative medicine for sepsis and no professional is telling kids to take meds daily in order to avoid fevers. Vkbd is so rare and the clotting is not beneficial to a larger % of babies.
Do you srsly believe that we were ALL created without higher levels of this , which would imply that hashem made some mistake? Where is the group if infants with higher levels of vitamin k to know that it's actuality a deficit at birth to have lower levels? Why is bris done in day 8 and coincidentally we make higher levels of K naturally on day 8? Why do we say only breastmilk for babies but then let's inject of manner into them that can't even be processed properly through their system.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 8:12 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

This is false.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 8:20 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I think you are trying to say that it is obvious that the CDC would refuse to do a study - because they know what the study would prove.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 8:38 am

#BestBubby wrote:

This study has been done, repeatedly, and no significant differences in the numbers of vaxxed and unvaxxed children with autism were found.

Autistic children are equally likely to be vaxxed or unvaxxed because autism is a genetic disorder.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 8:39 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Just going to point out that formula-fed babies are much much less likely to suffer VKDB, because formula has tons of added vitamin K.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Feb 27 2020, 8:47 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Lucky you
Alive
With long tongue
As sharp as a viper
Never experienced a vaccine reaction
On numerous occasions
Strong as steel
Lucky you

Lucky you
Alive
With your sharp tongue
As sharp as a viper
With your hate spilling out
For all to see,
Always assuming you know more about me than I do
Assuming you know my family's history
Assuming that every vaxxer who feels anti-vaxxers put their children in danger
Come from families with no autistic children
And no children who suffered a vaccine reaction
I have a sibling who till this day suffers because of a reaction to a vaccine
Yet she is still alive
And the disease, when she caught it because she wasn't fully vaxxed
Caused chain reactions far worse
I have a friend
Whose sibling is autistic
Yet her parents still vaxxed
So does she
Because despite the autism gene
She understands that the benefits outweigh the risks
She'd rather an autistic child than a dead child
And vaccines don't cause autism anyways
Lucky you
Sharp as a viper
Hard as steel
Assuming you know everything
Assuming
That it's okay
Because of your experience
To insist on seeing the smallest part of the picture
And defend your choice to put my babies
At risk of death.

No I do not forgive that choice
Ever
If you choose not to vaccinate
Please isolate yourself
Do not take your sick children to conventional doctors
Paid and trained by the Big Pharma you despise,
Take them to the quacks you believe in
Quarantine them every time they feel under the weather
Until you know they're not carriers of a deadly disease
Because no matter what reaction you've seen
You have no right
To decide
To place my child's life
At risk
Ever.

I live in a place
With a large group of anti-vaxxers
They are a community
This is part of their religion
They have a very unique lifestyle
It is not a standard Western lifestyle
I have no resentment against them
They have their lifestyle
I have mine
They are careful
They identify illnesses quickly
They quarantine quickly
They have perhaps 2-5 cases of measles a year
They quarantine properly
It never spreads
They are responsible
They are careful
They make decisions
For themselves only
Not for others
They do not risk my child's life
With their selfishness,
Their irresponsibility,
Their carelessness,
Their know-it-all attitude
Their lackadaisical attitude
Towards illness
They are careful
They are respectful
They are responsible
They do not spread
Deadly illnesses
And they never have
Unlike
People like you.

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