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Discussion on the Daf - Brachot
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 8:57 pm
Brochos 52

Does a mitzvah de’oraysa take precedence to a derabonon /
Is the reason why we say birchas hagefen first, because we
fulfilled the mitzvah of kiddush mide’oraysa by davening
maariv / Do women who did not daven maariv, say the
brachah on the day first, and then, on the wine

- פני יהושע , צל"ח -

[א [The Pnei Yehoshua on the sugya points out that Beis Hillel say to
make the brachah on the wine first, and then on the day, because
tadir kodem (a more frequent mitzvah gets precedence), even though
the mitzvah of kiddush is mide’oraysa, and that we make kiddush over
wine is only miderabonon. But he asks, do we not say that a mitzvah
mide’oraysa always take precedence to a mitzvah miderabonon, even
if the derabonon is more frequent than the de’oraysa? So, why do Beis
Hillel say to give the brachah on the wine precedence, because it is
more frequent, if the mitzvah of kiddush is de’oraysa?

And he answers, that this is because we fulfil the mitzvah of
kiddush mide’oraysa when we mention the sanctity of the day during
the tefillah of maariv, and it was Chazal who instituted that we say
kiddush again over a cup of wine. So, if the kiddush that we say over
wine is only derabonon, we may give precedence to the brachah over
wine which is more frequent, since both brachos are miderabonon.
The Tzlach asks about the reason that Beis Hillel gave for saying
the brachah over the wine before that on the day, because the wine
caused kiddush to be said. He says, the mitzvah of sanctifying the day
through words is a mitzvas asei mide’oraysa, and as far as the Torah
is concerned this can be done without wine, as the whole concept of
saying kiddush over wine is miderabonon. Thus, one who has no wine
or bread will say kiddush with words alone, and so, how can Beis
Hillel say that the wine causes kiddush to be said, if even without
wine one must still say kiddush?

Additionally, the Tzlach asks about that which Beis Hillel said that
one first makes the brachah on the wine and then on the day, because
wine is more frequent. The Gemara in Zevachim asks, which gets
precedence, a mitzvah which has more sanctity, or one that is more
frequent? And the question is left answered. It makes sense to say that
a mitzvah de’oraysa has more kedushah than a mitzvah derabonon. If
so, why does Beis Hillel point out that the brachah on the wine is more
frequent, as surely, the brachah on the day, which is mide’oraysa, has
more sanctity than the brachah on the wine, which is only
miderabonon. And so, even the wine has the advantage of being more
frequent, the brachah on the day has the advantage of having more
sanctity, and thus, the Gemara said that it might get precedence?
The Tzlach answers these two questions in one go. He says that
one fulfils the obligation mide’oraysa to say kiddush by davening the
tefillah of maariv. And so, when he makes kiddush at home it is only
an obligation miderabonon. Therefore, Beis Hillel were right when
they said that the wine causes kiddush to be said, because the only
reason why he would make kiddush at home after davening in shul,
is only because he needs to make kiddush on wine. Additionally,
kiddush no longer has the advantage of having more sanctity, as now
the duty is only miderabonon, and not de’oraysa.

Accordingly, the Tzlach says an amazing novelty, that women
who are not accustomed to daven maariv, and thus, their kiddush is
an obligation mide’oraysa, as the Gemara said earlier , that all who
are instructed not to do the prohibitions of Shabbos are also instructed
to do the positive mitzvos of Shabbos, such as kiddush. Therefore, if
a woman who did not daven maariv, makes kiddush for herself, she
will need to make the brachah on the day before the brachah on the
wine. Because concerning a woman who did not daven maariv, Beis
Hillel will agree to Beis Shammai, since her kiddush is mide’oraysa,
the two reasons that Beis Hillel give to say the brachah first on the
wine, fall away. Firstly, we cannot say that the wine caused kiddush
to be said, as there is a mitzvah to say kiddush even without wine.
And secondly, the fact that the brachah on wine is more frequent does
not have bearing, since her mitzvah of kiddush is mide’oraysa, it has
more sanctity than the brachah on wine, which is only miderabonon,
and the Gemara entertains the possibility that sanctity takes precedence to frequency
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Mon, Feb 24 2020, 9:38 pm
Quote:
Accordingly, the Tzlach says an amazing novelty, that women
who are not accustomed to daven maariv, and thus, their kiddush is
an obligation mide’oraysa, as the Gemara said earlier , that all who
are instructed not to do the prohibitions of Shabbos are also instructed
to do the positive mitzvos of Shabbos, such as kiddush. Therefore, if
a woman who did not daven maariv, makes kiddush for herself, she
will need to make the brachah on the day before the brachah on the
wine. Because concerning a woman who did not daven maariv, Beis
Hillel will agree to Beis Shammai, since her kiddush is mide’oraysa,
the two reasons that Beis Hillel give to say the brachah first on the
wine, fall away. Firstly, we cannot say that the wine caused kiddush
to be said, as there is a mitzvah to say kiddush even without wine.
And secondly, the fact that the brachah on wine is more frequent does
not have bearing, since her mitzvah of kiddush is mide’oraysa, it has
more sanctity than the brachah on wine, which is only miderabonon,
and the Gemara entertains the possibility that sanctity takes precedence to frequency


Do you know anyone who actually does this (I.e. switch the order of the Brachos)?

I believe the Tzlach (who is also known as the Noda B’Yehuda) has another amazing chiddush, which is that since according to the R’Osh, women are not included in arvus, men who have fulfilled their mitzvah d’oraiysa of kiddush in shul (and therefore are only mechuyav in kiddush d’rabanan) may not be able to be motzi their wives, who have not davened ma’ariv (and are therefore still mechuyav in kiddush d’oraiysa). I believe that one of the suggestions to resolve this is that by saying Gutt Shabbos/Shabbat Shalom (or equivalent) women may also have fulfilled their mitzvah d’oraiysa, and therefore kiddush al ha’kos is only d’rabanan for them as well. I imagine that s’vorah would work for the abovementioned issue, too. (I think this may also be a reason that many women who do not regularly daven ma’ariv, do so on Friday nights.)
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:44 pm
Brochos 53

One person makes a brachah for everyone
Should one make the brachah of borei me’orai ha’aish by
oneself, or hear it from others


- גמרא ופוסקים -


[א [The Shulchah Aruch quotes our Gemara, and writes that if they
were sitting in the Beis HaMedrash, and some fire was brought
in, one person should say the brachah for all, as Beis Hillel said.
From this Gemara and Shulchan Aruch, it would seem that one
may learn to all brachos, that if several people were going to say a
particular brachah, it is correct for one to say the brachah out loud,
and the others to listen and fulfil their obligation, as thereby they are
fulfilling the precept of מלך הדרת עם ברוב .Accordingly, the Magen
Avraham writes concerning the above Gemara, “ten people who are
doing one mitzvah, one of them should say a brachah for all of them,
even if the obligation did not come to all of them simultaneously.”
The Mishnah Brurah writes that the custom of those who do not
want to fulfil their obligation, to say brachos on the fire and the
spices, by listening to the one saying havdalah, but say their own
brachos, is incorrect, as it is a greater mitzvah for all to fulfil their
obligation by listening to the one brachah, as the greater the assembly
the more splendour there is for Hashem. So, no one should make a
brachah by himself, unless he is far from the fire and cannot benefit
from it, as then he has not fulfilled his obligation by listening to the
brachah. In that case, he should not intend to fulfil his obligation by
listening to the brachah made on the fire, but after havdalah when he
can get near the candle, he should make his own brachah.

And so, the Kesef Mishnah wrote in the name of the Hago’os
HaRamach, that according to the above Gemara in Brachos, it is clear
that due to the concept of מלך הדרת עם ברוב ,it is preferable for one
person to say a brachah for everyone. He also brings an earlier
Gemara where Bar Kapara gave one of the group permission to
bentch. Similarly, in an even earlier Gemara Raban Gamliel gave
permission to Rabi Akiva to bentch. And so it appears in the Magen
Avraham and in the Mishnah Brurah in the Biur Halachah and
also later on .


From here on its very enjoyable ...The ninth perek in Br is the most fun perek so far,
One of the most entertaining in Shas
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:26 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
Brochos 53


From here on its very enjoyable ...The ninth perek in Br is the most fun perek so far,
One of the most entertaining in Shas


I'm panicking because I'm two behind!
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:46 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
I'm panicking because I'm two behind!


Rule no 1 in DY ...go forward not backwarfs..

Just keep going , save the 2 for a vacation day or a day when the daf is very short or just forget about it completely
BUT KEEP MOVING Very Happy
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:48 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
Rule no 1 in DY ...go forward not backwarfs..

Just keep going , save the 2 for a vacation day or a day when the daf is very short or just forget about it completely
BUT KEEP MOVING Very Happy


Really? It feels so wrong. The problem is that I'm stuck on Daf 52 because I wasn't feeling well that day and it's SO HARD. I literally don't understand what the whole problem is with the tamei kos and the hands and the water and what is happening. I keep replaying the shiur and it's still completely confusing.

Plus, I feel like the whole discussion about the order of havdalah could have been explained much simpler because it seems unnecessarily confusing.

And I can't move forward because what if other things build on this daf?
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 26 2020, 12:11 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Really? It feels so wrong. The problem is that I'm stuck on Daf 52 because I wasn't feeling well that day and it's SO HARD. I literally don't understand what the whole problem is with the tamei kos and the hands and the water and what is happening. I keep replaying the shiur and it's still completely confusing.

Plus, I feel like the whole discussion about the order of havdalah could have been explained much simpler because it seems unnecessarily confusing.

And I can't move forward because what if other things build on this daf?


Why don't you ask someone IRL. Listening to the same explanation again and again may not help. The person you're listening to may not be explaining it clearly. You cannot ask questions to a recording.
Good luck.

PS, I am not learning daf yomi, but I like dipping into this thread every now and then.
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malki2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 26 2020, 1:45 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Quote:
Accordingly, the Tzlach says an amazing novelty, that women
who are not accustomed to daven maariv, and thus, their kiddush is
an obligation mide’oraysa, as the Gemara said earlier , that all who
are instructed not to do the prohibitions of Shabbos are also instructed
to do the positive mitzvos of Shabbos, such as kiddush. Therefore, if
a woman who did not daven maariv, makes kiddush for herself, she
will need to make the brachah on the day before the brachah on the
wine. Because concerning a woman who did not daven maariv, Beis
Hillel will agree to Beis Shammai, since her kiddush is mide’oraysa,
the two reasons that Beis Hillel give to say the brachah first on the
wine, fall away. Firstly, we cannot say that the wine caused kiddush
to be said, as there is a mitzvah to say kiddush even without wine.
And secondly, the fact that the brachah on wine is more frequent does
not have bearing, since her mitzvah of kiddush is mide’oraysa, it has
more sanctity than the brachah on wine, which is only miderabonon,
and the Gemara entertains the possibility that sanctity takes precedence to frequency


Do you know anyone who actually does this (I.e. switch the order of the Brachos)?

I believe the Tzlach (who is also known as the Noda B’Yehuda) has another amazing chiddush, which is that since according to the R’Osh, women are not included in arvus, men who have fulfilled their mitzvah d’oraiysa of kiddush in shul (and therefore are only mechuyav in kiddush d’rabanan) may not be able to be motzi their wives, who have not davened ma’ariv (and are therefore still mechuyav in kiddush d’oraiysa). I believe that one of the suggestions to resolve this is that by saying Gutt Shabbos/Shabbat Shalom (or equivalent) women may also have fulfilled their mitzvah d’oraiysa, and therefore kiddush al ha’kos is only d’rabanan for them as well. I imagine that s’vorah would work for the abovementioned issue, too. (I think this may also be a reason that many women who do not regularly daven ma’ariv, do so on Friday nights.)


On a similar note, I read that whenever Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZTL would get into a cab on Motzei Shabbat and saw that the driver was non religious, he would make sure to say Shavua Tov to the driver and have the driver respond, by which the driver would effectively be making Havdalah and would therefore not be Mechalel Shabbat by driving.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Wed, Feb 26 2020, 6:23 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Really? It feels so wrong. The problem is that I'm stuck on Daf 52 because I wasn't feeling well that day and it's SO HARD. I literally don't understand what the whole problem is with the tamei kos and the hands and the water and what is happening. I keep replaying the shiur and it's still completely confusing.

Plus, I feel like the whole discussion about the order of havdalah could have been explained much simpler because it seems unnecessarily confusing.

And I can't move forward because what if other things build on this daf?


If replaying this shiur isn’t helping- why not try a different magid shiur? On All Daf, there are several good magidei shiur to choose from. You can also try the 8-minute Daf or the Daf Hachaim Daf review, which break things down to their essentials . . .

(As I noted before - tumah v’tahara is very complicated, with lots of intricate details, but it comes up again, and again - so I hope that one day I’ll get it . . .)
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 26 2020, 8:24 pm
Brochos 54

Birchas HaGomel


The obligation to say birchas hagomel


The individuality of birchas hagomel makes it that his friend
is not considered obligated.
[
The Kehillas Yaacov explains another way why if another
person said birchas hagomel for him, he must answer Amen. He
says that in general a person cannot help another fulfil his obligation,
unless he is also obligated. And the reason why one may help another
fulfil his obligation of birchas hamazon even if he did not eat, explain
the Rishonim, is because everyone is considered obligated in the
mitzvah of birchas hamazon, since anyone who eats is obligated to
bentch. But, concerning birchas hagomel one’s friend is not
considered obligated to say it, even though he would also have to say
that brachah if a miracle happened to him, nevertheless, since
everyone thanks Hashem uniquely for his miracle, as we say, “that
He granted me all good,” thus, one is not obligated at all for one’s
friend’s miracle, since his brachah is for another situation.
Another reason why it is dissimilar to birchas hamazon, where
even one who did not eat is considered obligated, is that there even
though each one thanks for the food that they ate, nevertheless,
everyone thanks in a general way for the Land and the sustenance.
But, with birchas hagomel, each one thanks specifically for what
happened uniquely to him, and so, he will never have to thank the
same way as his friend is thanking for his particular miracle. Thus,
his friend is not considered obligated vis a vis his birchas hagomel.
Nevertheless, answering Amen will help, as by doing so it is as if he
said a brachah himself, and thus, fulfils his obligation.
Birchas hagomel is an individualistic brachah for each
miracle

Someone who was saved from an illness may help
one who went on a sea journey with birchas hagomel


- אורים גדולים -


[Concerning that which birchas hagomel is different to other
brachos such as birchas hamazon, even though both have the
same wording for everyone, nevertheless, birchas hagomel is
individualistic in that a person is thanking for his specific miracle.
The Chiddushei Rabi Akiva Eger in the name of the sefer Orim
Gedolim is uncertain if one who is obligated to say birchas hagomel
because he was very sick and was saved from that, may help someone
who is obligated to say that brachah for going on a sea journey.

He cites the Gemara in Zevachim concerning a korban todah
that was slaughtered for an alternative reason, Rabah says it is valid,
but Rav Chisda says that it is invalid. Rabah says it is valid, because
it was slaughtered as a korban todah. But Rav Chisda says it is
invalid, as it must be slaughtered for its particular reason. He explains
that their argument is about Reuvain who came back from a sea
journey, and Shimon, who was very sick and was healed. Both of
them brought a korban todah for their particular miracle. The Kohen,
however, slaughtered Reuvain’s korban on behalf of Reuvain, but
thinking that he had been sick and was healed. And Shimon’s korban
was slaughtered on Shimon’s behalf, but thinking that he had returned
from a sea journey. Thus, the names were not switched, neither was
the type of korban changed, but just the type of miracle was switched

The argument is whether such a korban is valid to fulfil the owner’s
obligation or not.
Rashi there explains similarly, when he says, “although the
korban was not brought for the same thanksgiving, as there are four
different reasons for bringing a korban todah, as mentioned in our
Brachos fromthe passuk and they brought offerings of
thanksgiving,’ and here he slaughtered the todah after returning from
a sea journey, as if it was a todah for being released from prison.”

According to this explanation of the Gemara, the sefer Orim
Gedolim has the following question: if Reuvain returned from a sea
journey, and is saying birchas hagomel, may he help Shimon, who was
sick and then healed, to fulfil his obligation to say a birchas hagomel,
even if he answered Amen? Even though the brachah is the same for
both, and should therefore be valid for both, nevertheless, one may
say that just as concerning the korban todah, even though it has the
same name, nevertheless, the intention to offer it for a different
miracle may render it invalid. So too, we may say that one who is
obligated to say birchas hagomel for one type of miracle cannot help
someone with an obligation for another type of miracle. He writes in
conclusion, that the matter requires more investigation.

What he says supports our previous idea, that there is no general
obligation to say birchas hagomel, but rather each person gives thanks
for his particular miracle. And thus, it could be that for two different
miracles one person cannot help another with his obligation, even
though they both need to say the same brachah.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 27 2020, 10:10 am
Brochos 55

I was inspired to do something good, for the sake of Talmidei
Chachamim, to answer seeming contradictions in the words of our
Sages. Firstly, to explain where ayin hora gets its power to harm.
We firmly believe that a person cannot suffer any damage unless it
was decreed upon him in Heaven, as they said in Gemara Chullin
“no one even stubs his finger, unless it was decreed in Heaven.”
So, we may ask, if this person is completely innocent, how is it
possible for him to be harmed by ayin hora? And if he sinned, and
it was decreed that he should suffer damage, and ayin hora only
serves to bring the damage closer, how could Chazal offer formulas
to save one from ayin hora? Doesn’t Hashem have many ways to
punish a person for his sins, as the divine song maker wrote in
Tehillim “Where shall I go from Your spirit, and to where shall
I escape from You. If I alight to the heavens, You are there, if I
descend to the grave, behold here You are.”
We found an amazing explanation for this in the writings of the
saintly Rav of Ropshitz, in the sefer Zera Kodesh as follows:
“We must believe that everything in this world is a shadow or
comparison of what is Above, and one needs to connect everything
to its source. For example, in my youth I heard it said, that a
recommended practice for those who want to avoid giving ayin hora
to a baby, is that they should gaze upwards. In my opinion, it could
be that a tsaddik said this in his wisdom, as ayin hora comes as a
result of a person seeing something beautiful or worth a lot of
money, or perhaps, children or strength or any other good quality,
and he is amazed by the superiority of this thing. Even if his
amazement is out of love for it, nevertheless, he causes harm through
his amazement, by separating between the article and its source.
Because, if that person would truly be wise and close to Hashem,
he would not be amazed at all, as how can one be amazed at the
splendor of Hashem. What one is seeing is, in fact, the splendor of
Hashem, or a comparison of His wisdom that He has bequeathed to
one who was created in His image. One just needs to raise one’s
eyes upwards, and connect the things to their source. Then, it is ayin
tova and not ayin hora…
One must thank and praise Hashem for all the good that exists
in this world, as we find that our foremothers, Rachel and Leah,
did, when they praised Hashem and were not at all amazed. This is
what our Sages said in Midrash Yelamdenu. ‘And the L-rd
remembered Rachel,’ – our Sages taught us, what blessing should
one say upon seeing a beautiful person? Blessed is the One who
has such in His world. As we said before, that we must give praise
that He made such a thing in this world, as a replica of the splendor in heaven
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 12:31 am
Hi all! As expected I don't have so much time to record my thoughts and ask questions at the moment. BH BH am managing to keep up with the daily learning, and also, Mustard, the zichru simanim which are great and really make me feel like I'm retaining something.

Naturalmom5, your daily insights and halachic added value are great, thank you! Do you write them yourself or are they from divrei Torah you read? If the latter, could you put a source? בשם אומרו etc, plus it would point people in the direction of more learning resources. Smile

Imorethanamother - don't give up! Figure out for yourself what you want to gain from your learning at the moment. My aim and desire is to get an overview. I want to know, to see, what is on the page in the Gemara. I just want to know what topics are discussed, to get a feel for the back and forth style, and to increase the spirituality in my life by replacing some time spent on shtuyot with Torah. I've tried to do that with other things like Tanach but not succeeded; bH this is working for me at the moment.

Anything beyond these aims is a massive plus. I have no illusions of becoming a talmid chacham or baki from this. I know there will be lots I don't understand. But even the little I gain is a gain. A metaphor my dad introduced me to as a child: the island of knowledge and the sea of ignorance. The larger I grow my island (the more I know), the larger its coastline (the more contact I have with the sea of ignorance, the more awareness of all that I don't know and understand). But do you want to live on a small island and be ignorant of your ignorance?

OTOH, your aim might be different than mine. Depth instead of breadth might speak to you more right now. In which case daf yomi is not your niche atm. I am sure there are recorded iyun shiurim you could access. Maybe your husband or an amother here can suggest something. Or Amud yomi or amud sh'vui. Or Rambam yomi. Etc. If you do decide us, don't desert us - share your learning, questions and insights on a new thread, I would love to benefit second-hand! Smile
Hatzlacha, may we all go מחיל אל חיל.

Posters I haven't mentioned by name, no time, but be assured I am gaining from you all, not least by the inspiration and camaraderie.

Shabbat shalom!
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 12:34 am
Btw imorethanamother, a new cycle of Rambam yomi is just started or about to start.
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chicco




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 6:48 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Really? It feels so wrong. The problem is that I'm stuck on Daf 52 because I wasn't feeling well that day and it's SO HARD. I literally don't understand what the whole problem is with the tamei kos and the hands and the water and what is happening. I keep replaying the shiur and it's still completely confusing.

Plus, I feel like the whole discussion about the order of havdalah could have been explained much simpler because it seems unnecessarily confusing.

And I can't move forward because what if other things build on this daf?


The last few days for the most part haven't built on each other.

If you feel like you aren't getting it, try someone else's shiur for that daf. It may help. I admire your determination to have a good handle on what you are up to before moving on.
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chicco




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 6:55 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Brochos 55

I was inspired to do something good, for the sake of Talmidei
Chachamim, to answer seeming contradictions in the words of our
Sages. Firstly, to explain where ayin hora gets its power to harm.
We firmly believe that a person cannot suffer any damage unless it
was decreed upon him in Heaven, as they said in Gemara Chullin
“no one even stubs his finger, unless it was decreed in Heaven.”
So, we may ask, if this person is completely innocent, how is it
possible for him to be harmed by ayin hora? And if he sinned, and
it was decreed that he should suffer damage, and ayin hora only
serves to bring the damage closer, how could Chazal offer formulas
to save one from ayin hora? Doesn’t Hashem have many ways to
punish a person for his sins, as the divine song maker wrote in
Tehillim “Where shall I go from Your spirit, and to where shall
I escape from You. If I alight to the heavens, You are there, if I
descend to the grave, behold here You are.”
We found an amazing explanation for this in the writings of the
saintly Rav of Ropshitz, in the sefer Zera Kodesh as follows:
“We must believe that everything in this world is a shadow or
comparison of what is Above, and one needs to connect everything
to its source. For example, in my youth I heard it said, that a
recommended practice for those who want to avoid giving ayin hora
to a baby, is that they should gaze upwards. In my opinion, it could
be that a tsaddik said this in his wisdom, as ayin hora comes as a
result of a person seeing something beautiful or worth a lot of
money, or perhaps, children or strength or any other good quality,
and he is amazed by the superiority of this thing. Even if his
amazement is out of love for it, nevertheless, he causes harm through
his amazement, by separating between the article and its source.
Because, if that person would truly be wise and close to Hashem,
he would not be amazed at all, as how can one be amazed at the
splendor of Hashem. What one is seeing is, in fact, the splendor of
Hashem, or a comparison of His wisdom that He has bequeathed to
one who was created in His image. One just needs to raise one’s
eyes upwards, and connect the things to their source. Then, it is ayin
tova and not ayin hora…
One must thank and praise Hashem for all the good that exists
in this world, as we find that our foremothers, Rachel and Leah,
did, when they praised Hashem and were not at all amazed. This is
what our Sages said in Midrash Yelamdenu. ‘And the L-rd
remembered Rachel,’ – our Sages taught us, what blessing should
one say upon seeing a beautiful person? Blessed is the One who
has such in His world. As we said before, that we must give praise
that He made such a thing in this world, as a replica of the splendor in heaven


I think we as people have the ability to define reality to an extent. If we perceive something a certain way, and relate to it that way, we have given it credence, and made it real to an extent, and therefore it is affected as such.

If someone looks into our life and makes assumptions/comes to certain conclusions based on our actions and behaviors, that itself introduces that possibility reality, and now the effects of that possibility now apply to us. That is why it is incumbent on us to behave in a way that will not give others the ability to think badly of us or towards us, because once they do, it becomes a part of reality. It should also encourage us to give others the benefit of the doubt, knowing how our surmising about their life and our personal thoughts really can affect them poorly.

This also applies to the dreams in the daf. We have the power to interpret dreams and the interpretations affect reality simply because we give them life. We must have an ayin tov and be dan lekaf zechus for our sake!
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 7:58 am
Aylat wrote:
Hi all! As expected I don't have so much time to record my thoughts and ask questions at the moment. BH BH am managing to keep up with the daily learning, and also, Mustard, the zichru simanim which are great and really make me feel like I'm retaining something.

Naturalmom5, your daily insights and halachic added value are great, thank you! Do you write them yourself or are they from divrei Torah you read? If the latter, could you put a source? בשם אומרו etc, plus it would point people in the direction of more learning resources. Smile

Imorethanamother - don't give up! Figure out for yourself what you want to gain from your learning at the moment. My aim and desire is to get an overview. I want to know, to see, what is on the page in the Gemara. I just want to know what topics are discussed, to get a feel for the back and forth style, and to increase the spirituality in my life by replacing some time spent on shtuyot with Torah. I've tried to do that with other things like Tanach but not succeeded; bH this is working for me at the moment.

Anything beyond these aims is a massive plus. I have no illusions of becoming a talmid chacham or baki from this. I know there will be lots I don't understand. But even the little I gain is a gain. A metaphor my dad introduced me to as a child: the island of knowledge and the sea of ignorance. The larger I grow my island (the more I know), the larger its coastline (the more contact I have with the sea of ignorance, the more awareness of all that I don't know and understand). But do you want to live on a small island and be ignorant of your ignorance?

OTOH, your aim might be different than mine. Depth instead of breadth might speak to you more right now. In which case daf yomi is not your niche atm. I am sure there are recorded iyun shiurim you could access. Maybe your husband or an amother here can suggest something. Or Amud yomi or amud sh'vui. Or Rambam yomi. Etc. If you do decide us, don't desert us - share your learning, questions and insights on a new thread, I would love to benefit second-hand! Smile
Hatzlacha, may we all go מחיל אל חיל.

Posters I haven't mentioned by name, no time, but be assured I am gaining from you all, not least by the inspiration and camaraderie.

Shabbat shalom!


They are my husbands notes.. I can ask him for sources if you like
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 8:12 am
Brochos 56


The punishment of the wicked

Now, we can begin to understand what Raba bar Bar Chana saw
in the desert in the place that Korach and his congregation were
swallowed up. “Two fissures in the ground from which smoke
was wafting out” alludes to the fact that Korach and his
congregation besmirched the honor of Moshe Rabeinu on two
accounts. Firstly, they accused him of using false humility, not in
its place. Secondly, that he was raising himself over the
congregation of Hashem in an arrogant way. And since they accused
him of doing both these things for reasons of pride, as even his
humility was to increase his honor, therefore, smoke came out of
two crevices in the rock, hinting to the trait of pride that rises
upwards.

They were punished by being swallowed into the ground in the
place of Gehinom. Therefore, the Gemara said: “Every thirty days
Gehinom turns them over like a piece of meat in a cauldron, and
they say, ’Moshe and his Torah are true and they are liars.” Since
they clouded Moshe’s honor by accusing him of false humility and
inappropriate pride, therefore, measure for measure, they were
cooking every thirty days, “like a piece of meat in a cauldron,” like
meat cooking in a cauldron of water.

The idea is that the boiling water in the cauldron, heated by the
fire of Gehinom, alludes to the combination of false humility, which
is symbolized by water, and false pride, that is symbolized by fire.
Therefore, Korach’s company are cooking in the boiling water of
Gehinom, like meat in a cauldron, to atone for them tarnishing
Moshe Rabeinu’s honor, when they accused him of using the
combination of the traits of humility and pride, in an inappropriate
way. Therefore, when they are cooking, they are saying, “Moshe is
true and his Torah is true,” thereby admitting that Moshe Rabeinu
used the traits of humility and pride in the correct way, for
Hashem’s sake.

This is also the reason why the wicked in Gehinom are punished
like “meat in a cauldron.” Because the root of all transgressions of
the wicked is that they have false humility, and think that Hashem
does not want their mitzvos. And on the other hand, they have
misplaced pride, which causes them to drive Hashem away, as
Hashem will not let His Presence rest on an arrogant person. And so,
the punishment is for them to cook in boiling water, which alludes to
the combination of humility and pride.

Now, to return to the idea of the saintly Rav Mordechai Banet,
that although there is an eternal struggle between water and fire, as
fire alludes to the trait of pride, since the nature of fire is always to
rise, while water alludes to the trait of humility, since the nature of
water is always to flow downwards to the lowest possible point.
However, a pot in which water is cooked on a fire, makes peace
between them, and alludes to the correct combination of the two traits,
true humility, when appropriate, and pride of sanctity, when needed.
Now, we can understand why they said in the Gemara that seeing
a pot in one’s dream is a symbol of peace, only if there is no meat
inside it. But, if there is meat there, it is not a symbol of peace, as it
is written And who ate the flesh of My people and flayed their
skin from upon them, and opened their bones and broke them, as
in a pot, and like meat within a cauldron.” This passuk alludes to
the punishment of the wicked in Gehinom, as we mentioned in the
name of Rabeinu Bachya: “Gehinom, where the wicked are turned
over like meat in a cauldron.”

Accordingly, if there is meat in the pot, this alludes to the
punishment of the wicked in Gehinom, for misusing the trait of
humility and pride. And as such, it is not a symbol of peace between
the two opposing traits, but on the contrary, as for this reason the
wicked are punished by being cooked as meat in a cauldron. But when
one sees a pot without meat inside, this is a symbol for peace between
true humility and pride of sanctity, to the extent that one will not cook
in Gehinom like meat in a cauldron.

We can say that therefore Rabeinu Hakadosh completed The Oral
Torah as follows ** “The only receptacle for containing blessing
among Israel that Hashem found, is peace, as it is written ***
‘Hashem will give strength to His people, Hashem will bless His
people with peace.’” To teach us that one who involves himself
with Torah, which is likened to fire and to water, must be a
“receptacle for containing blessing”, like a pot that makes peace
between fire and water, to use those two traits is his involvement in
Torah, with pride of sanctity combined with humility of sanctity, and
in the merit of this we should merit all the blessings that are written
in the Torah


Micah 3.3

** Uktzin perek 3 mishna 12

*** Tehillim 29.11
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 3:13 pm
chicco wrote:
The last few days for the most part haven't built on each other.

If you feel like you aren't getting it, try someone else's shiur for that daf. It may help. I admire your determination to have a good handle on what you are up to before moving on.


I have one child who, for lack of a better word, is extremely intelligent. I actually think that he's somewhat impressed that I'm doing the daf, which is shocking, because so far in all my years of mothering him he's been so far, completely unimpressed. Very Happy

Anyway, I was listening to a shiur while reading inside and he said, "Is that the daf?"
Me: Yes, I'm so behind!!
Him: How behind?
Me: I'm on 53, the rest of the world is on 55.
Him: So just listen to the 8 minute daf on YouTube (he's seen me review with that, and thinks it's so cool).
Me: No, I really want to know it.
Him: Well, do you remember what happened on daf 24?
Me: .........
Him: Just listen to the 8 minute daf.

Exit, stage right.

Savage.
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2020, 3:16 pm
Aylat wrote:
Btw imorethanamother, a new cycle of Rambam yomi is just started or about to start.


NO DON'T TELL ME THAT. I'm on Daf Yomi, Nach Yomi, and all the regular speakers I used to listen to have fallen by the wayside and there's just not enough time in the day! Rabbi YY Jacobson has three shiurim I'm dying to listen to that I haven't had a chance to yet. Rabbi Glatstein - I have seven shiurim saved! I have to quit my job!! I've always loved loved Rambam, and I really want to know it inside....

Where can I find this? The OU app is my jam.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 29 2020, 8:51 pm
Shavua Tov alll

That was a very exciting agadita today...

.Brochos 57


[The Rambam in hilchos brachos 1 writes, it is midivrei sofrim that
on any food one should first say a brachah, and then one may eat it.
And then 2 he writes, just as one says a brachah for benefit, so one
says a brachah for any mitzvah, before doing it.
Chazal instituted many brachos as praise, thanks or supplication,
to constantly remember our Creator, even without receiving benefit or
doing a mitzvah.

And then 3 he writes, and so, there are three types of brachos, for
benefit, for mitzvos, and as praise, which are written in the form of
praise, thanks and request, so that one will remember the Creator
constantly, and fear Him.

The Pri Megadim 4 cites the Rambam, and explains that there are
several differences and variations between the brachos of praise and
thanks, and other brachos, as will be explained.
The Pri Megadim writes there that concerning brachos of praise
and thanks there is no prohibition to say a brachah, even when there
is no obligation. He is referring to a brachah when in doubt. Even
though generally we say that we are lenient about brachos when in
doubt, and one may not say them, nevertheless, concerning brachos
of praise one may say them even when in doubt.

His source is from the Tur 5, who writes in the name of Rav Hai
Gaon, even though the halachah is not like the rabbanim of Eretz
Yisrael, who would say the brachah of lishmor chukov when
removing their tefillin, because they held that night is not the time
for tefillin, and it is forbidden to wear tefillin then, but we pasken
that mide’oraysa night is a time for tefillin, nevertheless, whoever
wishes to say this brachah may do so. The Tur himself questions
this, since one is not obligated to say it, if he does say that brachah
it is redundant. The Beis Yosef explains Rav Hai’s opinion, that since
we are in doubt if the halachah is that night is
a time for tefillin or
not, therefore, we allowed to say this brachah.

The Bach queries this answer, and says, if it is a doubt, how can
one be allowed to say it? He writes though in the name of the
Mahar”a of Prague, to answer the Tur’s question, that just as we find
in Eiruvin 6 concerning the brachah of shehechiyanu on Rosh
Hashanah and Yom Kippur, which is voluntary but not obligatory, and
yet, one is allowed to say it, even though it is not obligatory, so too,
with this brachah. To support this, he quotes the Tur 7 in the name of
the Baal Ha’itur, concerning bedikas chametz, that if one wishes, one
may say the brachah of shehechiyanu, even though there is no
obligation to say it. Similarly, with birchas hagomel, one may say it
even if one is not obligated. And even though we say in a case of
doubt one may not say a brachah, this refers specifically to brachos
for benefit or mitzvos.

The Bach himself argues with the Mahar”a of Prague, and
differentiates between the brachah of shehechiyanu and other brachos.
He says that specifically shehechiyanu that comes because of a
person’s joy, may be said even though one is not definitely obligated.
He will not be transgressing the prohibition of Lo Tisa if he is happy
and thanking Hashem, Who has kept him alive and sustained him until
this time. But as far as the brachah of Lishmor Chukav, clearly, if
there is a doubt about this, he may not say it, and say “Who has
commanded us…” as this is possibly a redundant brachah, which is
prohibited according to all.


NOTES
1 perek 1 halacha 2
2 hal 3
3 hal 4
4 intro to hilchos birchos ha shachar
5 siman 29
6 daf 40a
7 siman 432
8 seif 22 sk 1
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