What is Considered a Nice Wage In Eretz Yisroel?

amother

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 3:12 am

Tamiri wrote:

My rent alone is 3500 NIS for a home in the Shomron.

Wow - that sounds exhorbitant! that must be per year?
I did hear once that it's actaully usually more cost-effective to rent than to buy. We were lucky to buy something dirt-cheap just before the area became "desirable".

Tamiri wrote:

One kid in 7th grade costs over 1200 NIS/month for tuition plus bussing.

yes, once you hit yeshiva/ulpanot with dorms, the prices go sky-high. I jsut figure that Hashem will ahve to rpovide for that - it's certainly not an comfort expense.

Tamiri wrote:

Groceries are close to 4000 NIS/month.

That also sound quite high to me - I'm not sure, but I think I'm paying almost half that much. But we really scrimp.

Tamiri wrote:

Electricity is between 800-1200 for two months, depending on the month.
Arnona is 800 NIS and change.
Water is around 300 NIS for two months, including watering the garden.
Braces for one kid over 400 NIS per month for 20 months.
Have we even started the month yet?
Our car is a company car which, while it costs, leaves us free with gas and maintenance and we use the car a lot.
I always think I am saving and then I read posts like the ones here....

yeah, that's about how it is. But I've also seen the hashgacha pratis - I eman, noone is living on the street (except by choice), everyone's eating the most basic staples at least. The real killer (lit.) is when a newlywed couple expect an apt bought for them.

Tamiri

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 3:38 am

Well, it's a house. 3500 NIS is the monthly cost. It used to be $750 but I asked the landlord to switch over to shekels and then... the dollar dropped. On the one hand, it's closer to $900 or more now. On the other, the price hasn't changed in three years and is based on our shekel income, not anything else. So everyone is happy. It's really not so much for a house with 5 bedrooms and three full baths, even though I really really dislike it. Our "house" money from the States is lying comfortably and gaining for us (even as the almightly dollar gets worth less and less) so it's not a bad way to live. We never had any money (can anyone relate to that?) so when our U.S. house sold at a profit and we suddenly had a little money in the bank, it got hard to spend it on another house (usually buying a house is NOT a winning financial decision). When we make a bar mitzva (2 out of 5 left to go) or, G-d willing a wedding (eldest is over 22) within a few years, we can pay for it BE'H.
My 7th grade yeshiva tuition is WITHOUT dorms (with dorm was 1500 NIS/month for another son who is not there anymore), but includes SIX HUNDRED SHEKELS plus change/month for transportation. We have no boys HS so they have to travel.
We started our lives in Israel almost 24 years ago. No one bought us an apartment. We did not expect it, even though most of the Israelis seem to have gotten lots of help in that area from parents, and they they "buy up
as the years go by. In the States, it's easy to "buy", or at least it was before the mortgage mess, with just 5% or 10% down. Here, there is no way, unless you are very rich, to cover a mortgage of $200K. It's easier to rent. I think.

Tamiri

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 3:58 am

It's a valid question, where does the start up money come from. As I wrote, it's much easier there, with a smaller down payment and then a 30 year morgage. We had huge payments every month (when we left, on the second house, the payments were like $2500/month). In the States, we bought our first house with about $10K down. I am not kidding. Some we had saved over the years (we had been married 11 years by then), a little we borrowed from a friend and a little my FIL gave us. We sold it at no profit and when we bought another house (our miracle house, which we sold after we came back to Israel and got lucky with the profit) 3 years later, we bought the cheapest one available in the Jewish/eruv area. It was run down, needed a roof (which was all we ever did to it) but it worked for us. We put down around $20k, of which my parents gave us $10K. We lived in this old, falling apart house for three years, while prices climbed insanely around us and we had no money to fix it. However, we realized that the prices were our "siman" to get up and get back to Israel and we did it.
As far as "how people do it". I believe that education is very important. My husband went to college/university for many many years before he started earning decently - his first "real" job was at age 31, after 10 years of marriage and three kids! We lived poor for quite a while as an investment towards the future, which B'H enables us to live now, without me going out to work. It was not easy, we had nothing to our names for a long time. I realize that at this point we are blessed, not living on easy street, but not worrying either and am thankful.
Then I look around and see people with huge, beautifully furnished homes, 2 cars, trips to chu"l etc. and wonder how THEY did it. Many of them got successful in business, many have rich families, many have yerusha. Many also live beyond their means :(

Seraph

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 5:02 am

Ok, so I just did the math.
My husband just got a new job- he's a store manager- at 4850 shekel a month approx. (He occasionally works overtime for a nice bonus...)
I'm working 2 days a week, making 1270 a month.
Thats 6120 shekel a month! Wow!
(And I just got a new job that should start soon iy'h poo poo poo getting 9 dollars an hour with a minimum of 10 hours working a week- thats at least 1470 a month in addition... making our income be about 7600 shekel a month)

And for the months of january to march, I'm going to be replacing a friend at her job- full time- and I'll be making 4380 shekel.
That means for those months, our combined salaries will be 9230!! Omg!

I'm a little amazed! (I hadn't done the math yet.)

Our expenses are as follows:
I don't pay for daycare, b'h as my baby is with me.
Food- I try to keep it down to 200 shekel a week, but its probably closer to 300 a week.
Our rent is paid once every 3 months, at 380 dollars a month. (2 bedroom apt, with 2 bathrooms, big porch and a backyard.) Thats 1444 a month, or 4332 every 3 months at this current exchange rate.
We each have a monthly bus pass at 149 shekel a peice.
so 300 shekel a month on transportation.
Our last bi-monthly electric bill was 300 shekel. But that was without heating.
Our last bi monthly gas bill was 200 shekel.
Our bezek line last month was 120 shekel.
Our last arnona/water/shmira bill was 333 shekel. (We're applying for a hanacha on our arnona... but thats processing.)
Meuchedet (health insurance, for you americans) we pay 85 shekel a month to have an upgraded service.
For our 5 cell phones total, we pay approx 300 shekel (we wanted to stop with Pelephone and switch over to mirs, only to realize when we wanted to cancel our pelephone, we'd have to pay 1500 shekel for each of the three phones, so its cheaper to just continue paying our three year contract...

Our kitzvat yiladim is really small- like 120 shekel a month. I thought it was supposed to be more.

So total expenses a month- 2800 not counting food. With food it probably is about 4000 a month.

So we should be pretty well off.
But we aren't, because... for the first few months we were married, neither of us had work. So that ate up every last bit of our savings.
And then I started working, 3/4 of the time, and made 3500 shekel a month. I worked 3 mos, and then had to stop bec of horrid morning sickness. It took us another month for my husband to find a job, and he made approx that amt.
Which would have been ok, because our arnona was less, we had fewer cell phone bills, and our rent was less, and I skimped more on food... But then we were hit with outrageous bills from our past- 3000 shekel for a cell phone bill from 4 years ago that was never paid.
So that put us into minus.
And we didnt realize how much heat was, so we paid 1000 shekel gas bill that month as well.
That put us more into minus. And we had to get help from our parents to pay our rent.
But then it was fine.
But then it was the summer and my husband wasnt really working as much, because he worked as a security guard in a school that didnt have school during the summer. So he just worked at events, but it wasnt a steady income.
And then we were ROYALLY SCREWED by the STUPID STUPID misrad hapnim. My husband wanted to switch companies to one closer to home that had more hours, so we'd have a little more money. But when this company went to apply for a gun liscense for my husband, they found out he had 2 misparei zehut, so had to "take care of that" before he could get a gun liscense- which were 2 months in which we had NO income whatsoever- because I had just had a baby and my husband couldnt work...
And now misrad hapnim screwed him so much because now he cant get a gun liscense anymore, so he cant work as a security guard anymore, which really was the only job he could get easily bec he has no high school diploma or college or job experience, really, and not the right personality for lots of jobs. (Anyone know if its possible to take legal action against misrad hapnim for doing that to him?)

So my parents really helped out with part and we took a loan, and my landlord decided that it was the perfect time to raise our rent.

But hopefully with these new jobs, we'll be out of the red and start saving, so that maybe one day we'll have enough for a down payment for an appt...

Thinking of posting anonymously bec my husband would freak out if he saw this was posted here, but thought better of it...

Seraph

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 6:08 am

suomynona wrote:

breslov wrote:

Our rent is paid once every 3 months, at 380 dollars a month. (2 bedroom apt, with 2 bathrooms, big porch and a backyard.) Our last arnona/water/shmira bill was 333 shekel. (We're applying for a hanacha on our arnona... but thats processing.).

OMG, I'm moving to Tel Zion tomorrow! Now just tell me how to convince my husband Smile

We pay about 5000 shek arnona, in our old apartment it was more. And I'm not even telling you what my rent is.

Its not bad at all to live here. If hes in kollel- theres a big community of english speaking americans who made aliya and whos husbands are in kollel...
I wouldnt mind an extra family here- seriously, come check it out. Only prob is theres a huge demand for apts for rent, and not really enough apts to go around. I don't know of any available apts to rent at the moment...
Oh- and I think I made a mistake about the arnona- I just discovered that theres a yearly arnona fee of 900 shekel.

Seraph

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 6:11 am

Tamiri wrote:

Breslov, forget the past, you are SO LUCKY IY'H poo poo at this point, you may be able to start saving 4 or 5 thousand shekels a month. The more you save, the more you will have later, lucky you.
I hear the most amazing stories in Israel. Even though it is tough in the beginning, so many people I know get these amazing brachot after a while here, I can't even begin to tell you. Maybe the "no gun license" is a bracha in disguise which will turn out to be a job your husband likes and can earn more at, you never know.

B'h, b'h!!!
Btw, that 9000 shekel income will only be for 2 months. But thats still decent.

Oh, and we have 200 shekel a month that go into a savings account. Right now it probably has like 600 shekel in it. Thats not much at all, but one day...

Oh, and I didn't put in extra expenses, like buying uriel warm baby clothes- I didnt have any that were warm enough.
And we're saving tons by only occasionally using disposable diapers- the rest of the time cloth. (I use disposable if I'll be out a whole entire day and I wont be able to shlep dirty diapers around with me and then home... Or if all the diaper covers are in the wash.)

amother

Thu, Nov 29 2007, 9:00 am

I think it is so amazing (in a good way!) that you all make it living here. DH and I are here for at least a year and our costs are so much higher than what everyone else mentioned!

We do live in an expensive neighborhood, so what we pay pay for our 5 room apt (4 br, 1.5 bath) is the same as what we paid for a tiny apt in the US. I also think our bills are higher here than the US because of the arnona and vaad bayit, which is frustrating that the landlords pass these costs off on the tenants. We don't have cars, so I guess this makes up the difference. I found that what I spend on food is similar to what I used to, 400-600 shek a week depending. But I do buy a lot of american products.

As far as I can tell, it costs the same if not more for us to be living in Israel (at least in our neighborhhod, and I do think that if we decided to stay for much longer we would move) versus the US. Both DH and I have master's degrees that should there be positions available when we go back will both start around 60,000 a year ($). I don't think I would get even close to that in Israel (I have a masters in library science).

freidasima

Sun, Dec 23 2007, 10:50 am

Doesn't it depend upon whether you are paying a mortgage or have a car? Also whether you pay insurance or your place of work pays for you?

I have been reading this thread and I see lots of things that aren't counted in..I know that many people don't have this but others do. Home insurance. That can be another 150 to 200 shekel a month...Supplementary health insurance (like Klalit mushlam or meuhedet Adif or Maccabi Magen). If you are paying for older unmarried children it's not included in the family package. There goes another 200 shekel a month.

One talks about a food budget. But there are medications, toiletries, makeup, hygiene products (which cost a lot), and in a house with three or four teenage daughters that adds up. And just counting up sanitary napkins, panty liners, etc. for so many you have another 200 shekel a month...

School costs for older children who aren't in Haredi yeshivas but in Hardal ones can be expensive. A good sheitl (not custom) can be 1500-2000 NIS and if you wear one every day you need a new one every year you have to add another 150 NIS into the budget even if you wash and comb it yourself.

And so on and so forth. Of course there are things you can cut - lots of people live without insurance. But it's dangerous. We once had a fire in the neighborhood and a whole building went up in flames. Only one family didn't have insurance and they had to move. the others could at least cover the cost of having the apartments redone even if they couldn't buy all new stuff to cover what was lost. Since then no one who remembers it around here has let house insurance lapse, even if we only have "total loss insurance" which is cheaper.

It's these little things that add up and suddenly you find that it's another 2,000-4,000 shekel over and above what is written.

So there isn't one straight answer to that question. One small family can live decently on 4,000 shekel as they only have a baby, mother nurses, father in kollel, no transport necessary, cheap rental etc. Another family has five or six children, needs a car to get one of the parents to work, has kids in dorm yeshiva, is paying a 3,000 shekel mortgage, and they can't make ends meet on less than 15,000 shekel. So go know.