Refraining from pleasurable things during this time

soap suds

Fri, May 08 2020, 3:20 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I once heard a story about a well-known mechanech who was going to take his kids on a camping trip. They were scheduled to leave, when he heard that war broke out in Israel. He felt like it was incongruous to take his kids camping when Jewish boys in E"Y are fighting for their lives. He asked his Rosh Yeshiva, who agreed with him that it was appropriate for him to teach his kids this sensitivity by postponing the trip to another time.

So I think there is such a concept. I would not personally try to go on vacation nowadays to another state (even without the fact that it could be totally dangerous for the people there.) I really feel, for myself, that it would not be the right thing to go to Florida right now, for example, even if it would be 100% safe.

OTOH I try to keep my family's spirits up right now. I've been making good meals, baking things they like, there's icecream in my freezer, etc...we've spent fun times together as a family, games, puzzles, crafting, etc....I don't think we have to go to extremes. But certain extras we would not do right now, in solidarity with those who are suffering.

There's a difference between not doing something exta - like going on vacation, which is always something special, and avoiding the normal pleasurable things in life.

amother

Fri, May 08 2020, 3:33 pm

zaq wrote:

When? At Creation? Douches, abortifacient herbs and sponges soaked in vinegar were used millennia ago. They weren't 100% reliable, but then, neither are many more modern methods.

They existed, but they were not that widely used.

zaq

Fri, May 08 2020, 3:47 pm

there's a difference between "pleasurable things" and "conspicuous consumption" or "inappropriate frivolity". It's totally appropriate to postpone a pleasure trip or downscale a wedding when a nation is at war. it is not appropriate to postpone a wedding and not necessary to give up ice cream if there are no shortages. OTOH, if one has decided to give up ice cream al menat to donate the money one would have spent on ice cream to defense or to a war-related tzedaka, that can't be a bad thing.

amother

Fri, May 08 2020, 4:35 pm

Inappropriate frivolity and conspicuous consumption are always problematic.

amother

Mauve

Sat, May 09 2020, 10:24 pm

As discussed elsewhere, in the Teiva all the people and animals were told not to procreate, and only the raven didn't listen, IIANM.

There are other stories of people who didn't allow themselves certain pleasure because of a community-wide tzarah. The Chofetz Chaim didn't sleep in a bed throughout WWI.

(And we personally know someone who emulated that while his father was sick and dying.)

Or those who didn't listen to music in the week a godol was niftar etc. I think these are personal sensitivities for those on a high level.

I think for most people it's most important to keep up their spirits. While perhaps teaching our kids to be noseh b'ol with those who are suffering.

avrahamama

Sat, May 09 2020, 10:40 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

I understand this. Noseh b'ol would be no minyanim until the shuls can open their doors wide for everyone to join. For all avelim to say kaddish and others to answer amen.... And our rav told us to do that and came out strongly against backyard minyanim because of that. Because how is that fair or kind?

But to actually take on extra suffering ...

He told us music is allowed this sefirah. And that whatever we need to do for our children we do. Because they're already feeling terribly rejected by the world.

Tonight my 4 yr old told grandma. "We are going to have a no corona party and I'm going to touch you and hug you grandma." I can assure you I don't need to do anything extra for my children to understand suffering.

He saw my mom standing in our yard two days ago (we were SD And masks) and before I could stop him he ran and threw himself at her feet and wrapped his arms around her legs. We were all heartbroken. Hashem please help us all come through the other end of this complete and healthy so that this child can just sit in his grandmas lap.

I'm so sad as it is. If I need to buy my kids a swing set so that at least I see them squeel with joy ... Or bake extra cookies ... Or listen to yonatan razel.... I'm doing it.

itsonlyme

Sat, May 09 2020, 10:45 pm

The kids and adults are going through a lot right now . We are having a lot less pleasurable activities as is. Our goal should be to try to do whatever we can so our kids and ourselves should come out of this time the least effected possible. Dont feel bad doing thing that make you happy.

amother

Brown

Sat, May 09 2020, 11:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

They existed, but they were not that widely used.

How on earth would you know that?

naturalmom5

Sat, May 09 2020, 11:57 pm

justforfun87 wrote:

I have felt since this whole started that we are in a time of mourning. I have refrained from listening to music and really allowing myself to feel real joy.

BE VERY CAREFUL

Only do this under a competant rovs guidance

The sentiment is a good one, but if cvs you slump into depression thats far worse

amother

Hotpink

Sun, May 10 2020, 1:38 am

Mitzva gedolah liyos besimcha tamid.

Theres no reason to make yourselves miserable in such times.