Do you listen to speakers you don't fully agree with?

PinkFridge

Mon, May 18 2020, 6:04 am

I would say table it for now.
Rabbi Shraga Kallus has a shiur on TorahAnytime he gave a few weeks ago, I'm sorry I can't track it down, about how our gedolim aren't infallible (re judgments made re corona) but there is a system and working with the system is a good and important thing.
There is a huge gadol whom many disagree with on a certain issue. And yet he is treated with great respect and given a voice at the table. Because he doesn't often reference that issue.
My point is this: it is possible, given particular circumstances, to still respect someone whom you disagree with on something. BUT that person does NOT have to be the person YOU go to for eitza and psak, nor do you have to immerse yourself in that person's works.

amother

Smokey

Mon, May 18 2020, 6:21 am

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

Someone who claims to have all the answers, or thinks in black and white terms, can be hard to respect. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have good insights about anything, only that you need to take them with a grain of salt.

Human beings are complex. It's possible for someone to have great insights in one area and not be a moral role model. In Torah, however, you can't make that distinction. A teacher has to have internalized Torah in order to teach it.

In the world of ideas, it's valuable, and intellectually honest, to understand those with whom you disagree. I'm MO/DL, whatever label you want to use, and have a copy of Vayoel Moshe in my house. I find it horrific, but at least I know what he had to say.

In general, I think the standards are different for someone who is alive now (a speaker) versus someone who lived long ago. Racism wasn't a good thing a hundred years ago, but you can extend a certain courtesy because of different cultural norms. Today, it's unacceptable, period.

There are enough good speakers and writers out there that you don't have to settle for someone you can't respect.

[u]

What I think happens is that they stop a little short of claiming they actually have ALL the answers. They leave themselves just enough room to be able to defend their position by claiming they never said it happens 100% of the time.

A particular author who writes books on emunah is very popular and I've seen his name mentioned on this site many times. To me, he clearly equates good things happening in this world to those who are serving hashem. He has story after story indicating this result. However, after recounting dozens of such stories, he'll say something to the effect that it doesn't always work (after giving the reader every reason to believe that this is the system hashem uses- serve hashem and good things will happen.)

My point is there will never be a speaker or author who would brazenly say they have all the answers. Even if they make extreme claims, they still leave themselves enough wiggle room to back off their original claim.

keym

Mon, May 18 2020, 6:48 am

To me, it depends on how essential and relevant his view is to the topic at hand and how strongly and frequently he brings it up.
Let's say the speaker is antivax.
I would not be able to listen to any speeches regarding anything medical.
However a Parsha Shiur, I would listen to as long as he isn't bringing in Vaccine Views to explain the Akeida (meaning a real stretch). Just the fact that he's antivax isn't enough to turn me off.

leah233

Mon, May 18 2020, 6:55 am

Ironically in my experience, those who DON'T listen to speakers they don't agree with on some things are a lot more fond of the quote "Accept the truth from whoever says it" than those who do.

To answer about myself, I would listen to any speaker no matter how strongly I disagree with them on certain issues unless they are either an apikorus or looking to be controversial/promote controversial ideas.

southernbubby

Mon, May 18 2020, 7:17 am

ShishKabob wrote:

It's usually a turn off for me, so yes, I stop listening to them and find others that I'm ok with all over.

Me too. If it reeks of conspiracy theory or political agenda, I don't put much stock in the science that they are touting. I also wonder why the other mainstream scientists don't seem to be in agreement with them but I know the answer to that one; big pharma and Facebook is out to get them Twisted Evil

amother

Cerise

Mon, May 18 2020, 9:46 am

Speakers, maybe, depending on the issue and their background (sometimes the way they grew up has a lot to do with it.) But I don't read those emunah books, ever. We have had threads here begging for books and speakers to teach us about emunah in the face of all, even when we don't see the yeshua, and not for the sake of what we will get in this world because of it The consensus has always been that you need to go to the primary sources for them, not the lesson a day type books.

imasoftov

Mon, May 18 2020, 10:31 am

If someone tells me that a speaker who I don't normally pay attention to has said something more outrageous than usual or branched out into a new field of inanity (or that they've said something reasonable, for a change) I may listen to find out for myself if that's so. I'm more likely to do that if they can tell me that it happens at a particular timestamp rather than somewhere in a two hour recording.

PinkFridge

Mon, May 18 2020, 1:20 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Torah topics. Parsha, Navi , growth..not so much hashkafah.

Rabbi Zev Leff, Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz, Rebbetzin Ruthie Halberstadt - if you have TorahAnytime go to topics and see who speaks on parsha.
YUTorah is pretty interesting. I don't listen to a lot of people there but I could recommend Rabbi Shay Schacter, Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz, Mrs. Michal Horowitz.
Oh, and for parsha - Mrs. Shira Smiles, on YU Torah, and Naaleh.com.

I could keep going but I have to go.